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  1. #1
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    !Important, Need Clarification!

    Hi everyone, I wanted to come to you guys because I respect your opinion.

    (Caution, Life Story Follows) - For summary scroll to the bottom.

    Back in 99 or so, after eq1 had been out for a while I discovered what raiding was. Back in those days there were no fraps videos on you tube with great editing and what not but I had read about them on web pages especially the FoH website. I absolutely LOVED the idea of it, and was in a mad dash to be apart of a raid force near me.

    Unfortunately, I never actually made it into a raiding guild in eq1. I also never tried eq2s raid content because my friends and I quit by the time we hit level 40.

    Anyways so WoW comes out in like 04 and I start playing it, I get my toon up to level 60 and a bunch of my friends start telling me about the raids and I should go.

    So, I finally go on one of these raids and it was everything I ever thought it would be... I would literally have been kewl with raiding every day for 3-4 hours a day no issues. I proceeded to play WoW all the way through from MC to current content in WoTLK.

    However, because of how easy the raiding content has gotten and how annoying the community is as well as other reasons, I would like to find an alternative.

    Back when the Combine came out for EQ1 I decided to finally go back and play it all the way through, and I did. I managed to get into a raiding guild about the time they unlocked kunark and I raided all of the bosses in kunark and into vellious. However, it was EXTREMELY boring...

    I have never understood how tank and spank mobs can be that entertaining to so many people, but there are still people playing that game to day.

    (Summary) I need to know if Eq2 can hold its own in raid content and fun factor on raids against WoW.

    Here is a link from what I can only assume is a great guild doing the newest most difficult raiding content on EQ2:

    YouTube - EQ2 - Gynok Moltar - TSO

    Now, here is a link to the world first kill of the most recent content by what is considered to be the best raiding guild in WoW:

    YouTube - World First: Ensidia Vs. Yogg Saron - Part 1

    Ok, so am I missing something here? Because it looks to me, from a lot of videos I've watched recently on EQ2 that they're following the same trend as EQ1 did where you generally just stick a mob in a corner and the worst thing that happens is your raid has to watch out for a nasty aoe or your main tanks have to switch because of a stacking debuff or you have to tank a few mobs in a few corners and kill them one at a time.

  2. #2
    legolas
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    Default Re: !Important, Need Clarification!

    Raiding is designed so that players can learn how to kill a mob, then farm that mob over and over again to gear out themselves.

    It was never designed to be fun.
    EQTWOZSoRTAiZDABEZGAMZORZEVERZ!!!

  3. #3
    The Most Interesting Man in the World.
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    Default Re: !Important, Need Clarification!

    Wow raids are fun? is that what your saying here? They are different? How so? I don't think you really explained it much, and I don't give a crap about watching youtube videos.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss View Post
    Kfizz, I'm suing you for raping me.

  4. #4
    Pirate Jones Jr.
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    Default Re: !Important, Need Clarification!

    You've got two completely different scenarios linked here.

    The first video is of a top-end EQ2 guild farming a raid mob they've killed several times before (assuming, just by the text at the beginning). Thus, they have the routine down and it's probably pretty mundane, as any task you would perform over and over might be.

    The second video is of a top-end WoW guild getting a WORLD WIDE FIRST on a raid mob. Obviously it's going to be a little more chaotic and exciting and louder when something like this goes down.

    Personally I think that WoW videos always look more "exciting" on film because the engine can handle the graphics turned all the way up, while EQ2 raids tend to be a little blander because it tends to get very spammy and slower with everything on.

    also holy shit is the music in that WoW video obnoxious

  5. #5
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    Default Re: !Important, Need Clarification!

    Well, it is pretty difficult to explain something in great detail. Even in WoW you can read a guide about doing a boss but until you do it, it's hard to totally grasp all the angles.

    I guess my point was I enjoyed and had a lot of fun raiding in wow, my biggest complaint is that the people there are like on average 16 and stupid.

    If you want a detailed description of a WoW encounter, for example Kel'Thuzad.

    Kel'Thuzad is the last boss in Naxxarmas, current progression it's the first dungeon raid and it's considered medium difficulty for the current expansion.

    The basics of the fight are as follows:

    Everyone must move together as a group into the center of the room, as soon as this is done the room spawns around them.

    From about 7 different doors all in a circle around the room mobs will come. Little skeletons, to bainshees to big patchwerk looking things.

    You need two tanks for this encounter, both need to be well equipped preferably one who is better at taking magic damage and one who is better at melee.

    During Phase 1 the skeletons need to be killed before they get to the raid or they will stack a debuff on the raid. Also, the bainshees will move very slowly towards the raid and must be killed by ranged dps or they will knock the entire raid into the spawns around the room. Lastly the patchwerks must be picked up by the two tanks and killed by the melee dps.

    This phase 1 goes on for about 10 minutes, then Kel'Thuzad becomes active and enters the fight. At this time the raid needs to finish off any remaining patchwerks or bainshees as the Magic Damage Tank is positioning Kel'Thuzad in the center of the room ( Which is a giant PITA ) Because he chain casts and only moves if interrupted.

    At this point, all the mobs around the room despawn and the entire raid needs to evenly, 10 - 15 ft apart from each other, spread out around the room in a big circle. Carefully placing your healers on each side of the room so that everyone is in range of heals.

    Now, once the magic tank has aggro on Kel'thuzad the melee may move in to start dps. However, this fight is not a melee friendly fight because if you have too many melee on Kel'thuzad when he casts his ice block ability thingy and it hits a melee it will freeze him and anyone on top of him or within 10-15 ft of him and then will proceed to do 99% of their health in damage. So, melee are required to have pre-designated spots on the North - East and West side of Kel'thuzad and the Main Tank obviously being on the South.

    During the course of this phase, Kel'thuzad will chain frost bolt the main tank and then aoe frost bolt the entire raid requiring the healers to top everyone off in case of an Ice Block. However, Kel'thuzad will also summon basically fire on the ground and if you stand on the first for more than 3 seconds you instantly die. So, melee and ranged a like are instructed to move away from kel'thuzad in a linear fashion, not strafe out of it but walk backward out.

    This phase goes until about 45%, where Kel'Thuzad will summon 4 Carrion Beatles into the mix. This is where the Melee Main Tank needs to pick them up and pull them to the north side of the room. During this time, the carrion beatles will continue to raise in level and strength until Kel'Thuzad is dead eventually one shotting the Melee Main Tank and so therefore it is a rush to kill Kel'Thuzad asap.

    This is when the raid blows all cool down abilities and any dps enhancement abilities that will casue his death asap. Also, during this time Kel'Thuzad will randomly mind control two people which then have to be croud controled and then dispelled once the mind control fades.

    That is the general fight, I'm sure I left something out but that's basically it. If that's not detailed enough for you, I don't know what is... Does EQ2 have any raid anywhere near that complex?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: !Important, Need Clarification!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundolfe View Post
    You've got two completely different scenarios linked here.

    The first video is of a top-end EQ2 guild farming a raid mob they've killed several times before (assuming, just by the text at the beginning). Thus, they have the routine down and it's probably pretty mundane, as any task you would perform over and over might be.

    The second video is of a top-end WoW guild getting a WORLD WIDE FIRST on a raid mob. Obviously it's going to be a little more chaotic and exciting and louder when something like this goes down.

    Personally I think that WoW videos always look more "exciting" on film because the engine can handle the graphics turned all the way up, while EQ2 raids tend to be a little blander because it tends to get very spammy and slower with everything on.

    also holy shit is the music in that WoW video obnoxious
    Sadly, ensidia had prolly done that fight for 24 hours straight so by the time they finally beat it, they could prolly repeat it many times over and apparently have been for the last couple of weeks. They also had many hours on the test server farming it I'm sure.

  7. #7
    The Most Interesting Man in the World.
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    Default Re: !Important, Need Clarification!

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy View Post
    That is the general fight, I'm sure I left something out but that's basically it. If that's not detailed enough for you, I don't know what is... Does EQ2 have any raid anywhere near that complex?
    Yes, just they usually dont take that long fight wise if the first phase of the wow fight is 10 minutes. Shit those fights dont sound fun they sound annoying and stupid. I mean from what i've seen on Anashti theres tons of stuff going on, and if you want to look at the Gynok fight and the 'why's' for things, it's just as complicated with the knockback thing, the purple vision that can wipe the raid, the force target, the mobs rezzing eachother and not staying dead, the death touch, the curse, etc etc.

    I'm gunna go with the statement from that Thundolfe dude, I think its just cause the EQ2 one was already done a buncha times by that point and the WoW one was the first time.

    Not saying bad shit about WoW raiding (although if the fight takes 10 minutes before the name is even out, it sounds like its a 30+ minute fight, which would lead me to hate life, especially if someone wiped it 25 minutes in and i had to start over).


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss View Post
    Kfizz, I'm suing you for raping me.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: !Important, Need Clarification!

    Sadly, most wow fights were 25-30 mins long. You would have REALLY hated mr Archimonde then lol. Try dying at like 5% to that MFer, that'll ruin your entire year.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: !Important, Need Clarification!

    So, how would a raid deal with the purple vision / unkillable mobs. I assume once the boss died the mobs around die too? I asume purple vision is something you can cure?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: !Important, Need Clarification!

    Gynok Moltor was the first wielder of the Bone Bladed Claymore, a weapon so vicious in it's thirst for blood that Moltar was exiled from Qeynos. He apparently made his way to The Commonlands where he was responsible for the deaths of all the brave souls in the Keep of Marr's Fist, know today as the Ruins of Befallen.
    During the quest for the Bone Bladed Claymore, he is encountered in Stormhold as Level 47^^^ Heroic Ghost.
    In Befallen: Halls of the Forsaken, you meet him as a ghostly NPC and witness what happened the fateful night the Keep of Marr's Fist was destroyed. Gynok had a demon riding in his soul, The Eidolon of Depravity. He was aware of the demon and sought the aid of four brave knights to help purge the demon from him. He pushed the Eidolon forth, but the demon was too strong and all were slaughtered.
    NOTE: According to the Feb 5, 2009 Patch Notes, Gynok's entire loot table has been changed. The items he dropped previously no longer drop.
    Contents [hide]
    1. Raid Strats
    2. Known Info
      1. Melee Abilities
      2. Healing Abilities
      3. AE's
      4. Recommended Potions
    3. Strategy Overview
      1. Heal Strategy
      2. Tank Strategy
      3. DPS Strategy
      4. Special Team Strategy
      5. Add Mitigation Strategies
    4. Encounter Diagram
    5. Raid Groups
    6. Conclusion

    Raid Strats

    This is a technical fight that requires substantial AE DPS and dynamically switching tanks during curses.
    This is a multi-tank fight and requires every person of the raid to be on their toes.
    Known Info

    All Abilities information pulled from parsing data.
    Melee Abilities


    • Disease
    • Slashing
    Healing Abilities


    • Mob heals every time a person dies with curse touch of death on them.
    AE's

    Gynok Moltor
    • Dusts of Disintegration (35ish second timer Modifiable) - Targeted group (whomever has aggro of Gynok Moltor
    • Touch of Death - Cast by Gynok Moltor (38ish second timer) - Can be modified and can be INTERRUPTED - Targeted group (whomever has aggro of Gynok Moltor)
    • Sickening Circle (example) - (45 second timer)
    • Thunderous Bolt Damage Shield - Includes Knock back component
    Zathra Kalystin - 5.5 Million Hitpoints
    • Failing Spirit (40ish second timer Modifiable) - raid AE - Does not hurt that hard.
    Nax Sorast - 5.5 Million Hitpoints
    • Strips all negitive detrimentals from the MOBS on a timer.
    Marn Moltor - 4.3 Million Hitpoints
    • Fist of the Norrathian Star (40ish second timer Modifiable) - Single target CURSE. WILL KILL THE TARGET IF NOT CURED..
    Vin Moltor - 4.3 Million Hitpoints
    • Fist of the Norrathian Star (40ish second timer Modifiable) - Single target CURSE. WILL KILL THE TARGET IF NOT CURED..


    Recommended Potions


    • Cure Arcane / Cure Poison
    Strategy Overview

    Once you click the wall sconce to activate the event. One tank will pickup all of the adds
    The second tank will pickup Gynok Moltor.
    The third tank will ensure they can pickup Gynok Moltor at a moments notice in case the main tank dies to Touch of Death.
    Periodically throughout the fight, one person in the raid will get Purple vision. This one person is required to be next to Gynok Moltor when the vision fades (incurable arcane). If this person is not next to Gynok Moltor when the vision fades, the entire raid wipes. NO damage/de buffs on Gynok Moltor originating from the person who has purple vision, otherwise they WILL be knocked out of place due to the Thunderous Bolt Damage Shield.
    The raid will concentrate DPS on the adds.
    The mob Zathra Kalystin will resurrect one of his fallen comrades during the battle and will resurrect himself. You have to kill either (Marn Moltor or Vin Moltor) and Zathra Kalystin twice to successfully complete this encounter.
    If either Marn Moltor or Vin Moltor is alive when Gynok Moltor is below 30% health, they may start AE'ing the raid for considerable amounts.
    Once the first mob dies, you have 4 minutes before Gynok Moltor resurrects 2 mobs.
    The goal is to DPS
    Zathra Kalystin Nax Sorast Marn Moltor Vin Moltor
    down to around 20% Hitpoints then kill Marn Moltor or Vin Moltor, then kill Zathra Kalystin.
    Once they both are resurrected, then kill the 2 mobs with the lowest hit points, then re-kill Zathra Kalystin.
    Then focus all DPS on to Gynok Moltor and let the AE dps take down the remaining add. The remaining add will die to AOE DPS before Gynok Moltor reaches below 30% health.
    Heal Strategy

    3 healers are required for the group that handles the 4 adds.
    Curing the curses are critical.
    There should be a cure cure rotation for when Fist of the Norrathian Star hits, with the 2 healers within the main tank group saving their cures for touch of death that is cast by Gynok Moltor.
    Tank Strategy

    The tank responsible for the 4 adds will spike A LOT
    DPS Strategy

    There are a few small range directional AE's that are cast by the adds, melee dps should learn how to position themselves so they don't get one shotted by those ae's. You must maintain at least 100k DPS to successfully kill this encounter. That goal is easier obtained by 2 well equipped and knowledgeable warlocks.
    Special Team Strategy

    One person is responsible for clicking the sconce on the wall to activate Gynok Moltor.
    Add Mitigation Strategies


    Encounter Diagram


    Raid Groups

    MT Group Tank Cleric Shaman Dirge Coercer Swashbuckler
    Offtank Group Tank (SK Preferable) Cleric Shaman Dirge Illusionist Warden
    DPS Group1 Fill with AOE DPS/Buffs (off tank is required to pickup Gynok Moltor)
    DPS Group2 Fill with AOE DPS/Buffs

    Conclusion

    In the following order, kill the mobs
    1) Vin Moltor *Gets resurrected once and the 4 minute timer starts
    2) Zathra Kalystin *Gets resurrected once
    3) Nax Sorast 4) Marn Moltor 5) Zathra Kalystin 6) Vin Moltor 7) Gynok Moltor

    • Borrowed layout from another strategy entry
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Socrates says in the Republic that people who take the sun-lit world of the senses to be good and real are living pitifully in a den of evil and ignorance. Socrates admits that few climb out of the den, or cave of ignorance, and those who do, not only have a terrible struggle to attain the heights, but when they go back down for a visit or to help other people up, they find themselves objects of scorn and ridicule.

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