Originally Posted by Deule

Please don't tell me this is an attempt to defend the fact raids are taking 4-5 bards and 4-5 chanters on raids. I know all you utility classes are loving it but this is a serious draw-back in how the raiding system works and is the main reason that a lot of other classes have trouble finding spots on raids.

The fact is utility classes like bards and chanters don't need to be nerfed, instead imo they need to be beefed up. This calls for a complete revamp in which all of their group and single target abilities are instead changed to abilities that are raid-wide. Thats simple, the more people in a group/raid the more a bard benefits them....in exchange it solved the issue where you want a bard and chanter in each group. Instead for an ideal force you would have 2 bards 2 chanters. Simple isn't it.

The fact is this is where class revamps need to start. Than other classes can have slight adjustments to fill in those finally freed up raid spots.

Stop pretending like it is alright that 4-5 bards/chanters is alright on a raid.

Originally Posted by Backpayne

I play a brigand not a bard or enchanter.

Some players have been playing the classes in question since before they were in such a high demand. How is it efficient to nerf a class so that other classes can raid?

Personally, I have no qualms with the situation as it stands. Coercers bring power regen, dps mod, and a hate gain/transfer to the group. Illusionist brings a dehate spell proc, regen, IA, and haste. So why complain that they can dps decently AND bring that utility? I would rather see a utility class WITH decent dps than a utility class thats nothing more than a buff whore.

Lets look at it from a slightly different perspective other than I only want to have X amount of Y class in the raid. If those classes didn't do decent dps but helped increase dps, where would you draw the line for their usefullness?

For example: a dirge that parses 300-500 dps because they bring utility that might increase a groups overall dps by say 25% versus a T1 dps class that can bring more dps by being in that spot instead of the bringing the dirge.

Where do you draw the line there? The same goes for the rest of the utility classes. The idea that SOE has for bringing "balance" to a class is a substantial nerf. If people piss and moan that illusionists are OP'd because they can dps as high as a swash or brig and still have utility, I would ask them one very simple question. What does a swash or brig bring to the raid? They bring debuffs with their dps. So does that mean their class is OP'd because they bring more than ONE thing to the raid?

Before you go preachin about holding a spot in the raid force due to class, I'll say this... Yes, I'm the only brig in our raid force. Do I hold that spot because of my class? I could opt for any other class except a tank and have a spot in the raid force. Hard to be a prick of a raid leader and cut your own toon now isn't it.

Originally Posted by Backpayne

Ya know... after reading this shit heap of a whinefest about how to "balance" things and the arguements on both sides of the fence, I have to laugh at all of it.

Shit is how it is, deal with it. If you don't like how the raid aspect of the game is setup atm, cancel your account and gtfo. The game won't change because someone got their fucking pussy hurt when they got cut from a raid for playing a useless class.

Fact remains that shit changes constantly in this game. Whatever class is the flavor of the month for an expansion will probably/definitely change on the release of the next one. Either wait your turn to be OP'd or quit playin.

Now go wipe your fuckin pussy, change your kotex, and take a motrin.

Originally Posted by Backpayne

I play a brigand not a bard or enchanter.

Some players have been playing the classes in question since before they were in such a high demand. How is it efficient to nerf a class so that other classes can raid?

Personally, I have no qualms with the situation as it stands. Coercers bring power regen, dps mod, and a hate gain/transfer to the group. Illusionist brings a dehate spell proc, regen, IA, and haste. So why complain that they can dps decently AND bring that utility? I would rather see a utility class WITH decent dps than a utility class thats nothing more than a buff whore.

Lets look at it from a slightly different perspective other than I only want to have X amount of Y class in the raid. If those classes didn't do decent dps but helped increase dps, where would you draw the line for their usefullness?

For example: a dirge that parses 300-500 dps because they bring utility that might increase a groups overall dps by say 25% versus a T1 dps class that can bring more dps by being in that spot instead of the bringing the dirge.

Where do you draw the line there? The same goes for the rest of the utility classes. The idea that SOE has for bringing "balance" to a class is a substantial nerf. If people piss and moan that illusionists are OP'd because they can dps as high as a swash or brig and still have utility, I would ask them one very simple question. What does a swash or brig bring to the raid? They bring debuffs with their dps. So does that mean their class is OP'd because they bring more than ONE thing to the raid?

Before you go preachin about holding a spot in the raid force due to class, I'll say this... Yes, I'm the only brig in our raid force. Do I hold that spot because of my class? I could opt for any other class except a tank and have a spot in the raid force. Hard to be a prick of a raid leader and cut your own toon now isn't it.