TSO DPS Raid setup - Page 7

Milambers · 03-20-2009, 01:54 PM

From the parses I've seen, it does about 500-1k DPS for casters. Not something to overlook imo.

Eminaria · 03-21-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moori

I would LOVE to see you head out and beat down TSO Content effectivly with no Illusionists, No Coercers, No Dirges and no Troubs...

You cant say that you don't "Need" those classes... cause you do....Moron

Edit: cause spelling is hard

Got to love the bard / chanter haters...

Nut we'll run your removal of the 4 classes IF you remove the following classes and we'll see who does best: templar, defiler, inq, mystic.

See, there's other classes that's needed as well... you dont NEED 4-5 bards and 4-5 chanters, you could do fine with just 1-3 of each. But having more of them adds more to the rest of the people, and that's awsome, do you really want to go back to where suport classes were just sitting around doing nothing at all?

Deule · 03-26-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eminaria

Got to love the bard / chanter haters...

Nut we'll run your removal of the 4 classes IF you remove the following classes and we'll see who does best: templar, defiler, inq, mystic.

See, there's other classes that's needed as well... you dont NEED 4-5 bards and 4-5 chanters, you could do fine with just 1-3 of each. But having more of them adds more to the rest of the people, and that's awsome, do you really want to go back to where suport classes were just sitting around doing nothing at all?

Please don't tell me this is an attempt to defend the fact raids are taking 4-5 bards and 4-5 chanters on raids. I know all you utility classes are loving it but this is a serious draw-back in how the raiding system works and is the main reason that a lot of other classes have trouble finding spots on raids.

The fact is utility classes like bards and chanters don't need to be nerfed, instead imo they need to be beefed up. This calls for a complete revamp in which all of their group and single target abilities are instead changed to abilities that are raid-wide. Thats simple, the more people in a group/raid the more a bard benefits them....in exchange it solved the issue where you want a bard and chanter in each group. Instead for an ideal force you would have 2 bards 2 chanters. Simple isn't it.

The fact is this is where class revamps need to start. Than other classes can have slight adjustments to fill in those finally freed up raid spots.

Stop pretending like it is alright that 4-5 of single archetypes is alright on a raid.

Eminaria · 03-27-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deule

Stop pretending like it is alright that 4-5 of single archetypes is alright on a raid.

How'd you fill the raid if you didnt use 4+ of an archtype...

4x4 = 16... you're still short 8 people...

Milambers · 03-27-2009, 09:53 PM

archtype actually means scout/fighter/mage/priest! Everyone seems to be confused with that and class/subclass

Deule · 03-27-2009, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eminaria

How'd you fill the raid if you didnt use 4+ of an archtype...

4x4 = 16... you're still short 8 people...

Wow, out of the whole post I made that is all you could fucking get out of it. Seriously?

Please go back up and read the post and hopefully you are half way intelligent enough to realize I was talking about the spots that bards and chanters take up on a raid. Archetype was my bad, but god its like you don't even read the damn thing except for the last line.

Seriously, where do you people come from.

bighead222ed · 03-28-2009, 03:54 AM

They come form that Antonia bayle server! With the 16 person raid guild that does 200 k with out and sk it 150?

now that is what reading the last line is all about!

rawr

Eminaria · 03-28-2009, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deule

Wow, out of the whole post I made that is all you could fucking get out of it. Seriously?

Please go back up and read the post and hopefully you are half way intelligent enough to realize I was talking about the spots that bards and chanters take up on a raid. Archetype was my bad, but god its like you don't even read the damn thing except for the last line.

Seriously, where do you people come from.

I read the whole thing, but I didnt really feel like there was much more to add to the discussion. I'd writen a reply to the rest of the post you had but found that I was only repeating myself, so I deleted it, only leaving the gibe about the archtypes.

As I said, I don't really see a problem with using a bard and a chanter in each group, its not vital for most fights, but it helps. We've killed loads of mobs in the past without a chanter in each group, and its doable, but things just go faster with them, so why not use them.

Tbh, people should stop whining about other classes beeing used too much on raids ect, either learn to live with it, re-roll or come with some good suggestions as to how your own class would be useful. The fact is, even if they made the bard songs or the chanter group buffs raidwide, people would still use 4 of each due to the single target buffs (how many of the group buffs do you normally use from a chanter? I know that on my illus I rarely run more than the power buff, and leave all my conc slots for tandems).

Maybe the summoners ect could get some sweet single target buffs as well that's on par or better than the chanters, and you'd see them beeing used more on raids as well... *shrugs* But the fact of the matter is there's only 24 spots on a raid, and there's 24 classes, and running a raid with all 24 classes is not really an option so someone will always be left out.

*ps*

And if the 'you' utility classes are aimed at me then you need to check your facts again. I'm as far from utility as you could get

Deule · 03-28-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eminaria

I read the whole thing, but I didnt really feel like there was much more to add to the discussion. I'd writen a reply to the rest of the post you had but found that I was only repeating myself, so I deleted it, only leaving the gibe about the archtypes.

As I said, I don't really see a problem with using a bard and a chanter in each group, its not vital for most fights, but it helps. We've killed loads of mobs in the past without a chanter in each group, and its doable, but things just go faster with them, so why not use them.

Tbh, people should stop whining about other classes beeing used too much on raids ect, either learn to live with it, re-roll or come with some good suggestions as to how your own class would be useful. The fact is, even if they made the bard songs or the chanter group buffs raidwide, people would still use 4 of each due to the single target buffs (how many of the group buffs do you normally use from a chanter? I know that on my illus I rarely run more than the power buff, and leave all my conc slots for tandems).

Maybe the summoners ect could get some sweet single target buffs as well that's on par or better than the chanters, and you'd see them beeing used more on raids as well... *shrugs* But the fact of the matter is there's only 24 spots on a raid, and there's 24 classes, and running a raid with all 24 classes is not really an option so someone will always be left out.

*ps*

And if the 'you' utility classes are aimed at me then you need to check your facts again. I'm as far from utility as you could get

Yeah, guess you didn't read it. The part where I said all of their buffs both group and single target buffs needed to be changed into something that is raid-wide. Example...TC changed instead of being a single target buff for casting speed, instead it could buff the raids casting speed by 8-10%. IA, instead of a single target buff to double attack it could buff the raids DA by 8-10%. BC, instead of it being a single target buff to DA and flurry, it could be a raid-wide buff to flurry by 3-5%.

Just because you enjoy there being 4-5 enchanters and 4-5 bards on a raid doesn't mean that it can't be changed so that 1 of each of the class would be the optimum set up. And, like your paper thin argument, I can still argue that it is do-able without 1 of those classes, however you would definitely want to try to have 1 of each.

This would cut back on the amount of slots those utility classes are soaking up which in turn would open up slots to other classes. Than SOE could tweak the classes that need it, summoners and brawlers, so that they are the ones filling those spots.

In essence you make the utility classes stronger, but nerf the amount of spots they soak up. Utility classes could also win because they could keep their OP'd dps the same since most likely you are not going to want to bring more than 1 of each just for their DPS.

Next, Brigs and Swash. Make it so their debuffs extend the amount of time till the recast. Wow, suddenly instead of 2 brigs being nice...1 brig can do the job.

dakkota · 03-28-2009, 06:40 PM

Every game where you have a selection screen where you can choose from like 6 - 30 w/e different players/characters/toons whatever the context may be, there have always been a handful of the ones that suck and struggle the entire time. Why people choose the route of suck I don't know. The answer to crappy classes is don't pick, roll, and level up crappy classes.