Gwaine

Hi Guy:

Perhaps someone can point me to some Dev Chat on this subject, if you can please do.

The 24 Man raid setup confuses me. I understand that certain classes will always be desirable more than others on raids do to factors like DPS, Utility, etc.., and that having one of each class on a raid would be difficult for hard core guilds do to Class play styles being desirable to all player, but what makes up raids seems a bit unbalanced right now.

There are 12 Sub types in the game. An example of a Sub type is Guardian and Berserker are both Fighter Sub types. Paladin and SK are both Crusader Sub types. I would expect the Devs to test all raid content Against a raid force that had One of each subtype in it, with duplicates being up to the guild. I don't think they do. This seems like a very bad game dynamic. Each subtype should bring something unique to the game, I would also argue that each Class (24 of them) should bring something unique.

In a perfect world they would test Raid content with One of each class in the raid. 24 Spots, there are 24 Classes.

Does anyone have any insight to whether or not they look at Specific Class desirability in raids?

It seems to me they Make Encounters So Hard with So Many Hps that all its about is throwing a Collectiong of needed classed together to counter what that specific encounter challenges the raid. For example, "Oh this fight has nasty dots and AE, we need 7 or 8 Healers" I would say " NO the encounter should have been tested with 6 Healers in the raid, one of each type"

I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks

Gwaine
Level 80 Paladin (I know poor guy)

Masssive

i would say a good 24 man raid force does have 1 of almost all subtypes...

exception being that a summoner is easily gone without, wizard/warlock easily gone without, other than that i cant really think of any subtypes you dont want at least one of

warrior (obviously you need your MT)
brawler (monk raidwide buff is wanted, plus snap aggro/tsunami if needed)
crusader (makes a decent offtank, unless you already have 2 warriors in raid)
predator (assassin always wanted)
rogue (swashy/brigands always wanted for debuffs)
bard (always wanted for buffs)
enchanter (always wanted for buffs)
shaman (MT group musthave)
cleric (MT group musthave)
druid (wardens group healing best in game)

Jonnieonthespot

Raid make up is one of the chalenges to any encounter. Raids were never meant for a "cookie cutter" raid setup.

CoLDMTL

SOE and class balance = SNAFU (Situation Normal All Fucked Up)

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Gwaine

I agreed that raids are not "Cookie Cutter", but when raiding guild are telling you "We need 3 Dirges, and 1 troubabdor, we need 2 Coercers, and at least 1 illusionist" Logic would tell you that something is wrong with Raid Class balance, or the method in which they are "challenging" the players with the content.

I know many of you will just say "Its Sony, who said its logical", but I do beleive they want to make a game people play, I am just curious if other people have brought his up to them, and what the response was.

Gwaine

Hoss

I don't think all classes were intended to raid. Summoners seem to be built to solo. Course, coercers kinda rock at soloing too, and they're needed on raids.

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Deson

All the classes were supposed to be raid viable but that doesn't mean they were all intended to be on the same raid. The problem is they never balanced things out enough where all classes would even be wanted. They've been doing a solid job trying to fix that though and if what Aeralik says is any indicator, summoners and chanters are on the radar.

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Scythienne

All classes are viable for raiding if they're played right, but not all in the same raid. But there'll never be all 24 classes on a raid. Who'd want all 6 fighter types in the same raid anyway?

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Druuna

I prefer FUBAR ( Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition )

Mivius

The above was some of the most amusing bullshit I've read in a long time, thanks for the chuckle.

Summoners aren't broken either, just the people playing them tend to suck...I say this as our conjy puts up 12k+ (one of our guildies posted his 13.5k palace trash parse a few weeks ago (conj section), and it's not his high ZW...) consistently, I've also seen him hit 18-19k single-target on trash...point remains, the players suck, not the class....

Player skill should determine their raid spot more than class, though some classes (enchaters/bards) are often accepted for the buffs they can provide over skill.