pumpula

I wanted to gather everyones thoughts on this and try to find a more clear answer to how exactly this all works or what exactly it is referring to. I applogize if this was cleared up fully soemwhere else but after searching for hours I havent found anything near as detailed as what im looking for. Some of this is pure speculation so go easy on the flames

What we do know presently is a summarization that was recently released detailing the current order of how damage is calculated. Here is what was officially released via the update notes:

1. Base damage calculations
2. Weapon attacks add in DPS and weapon multipliers
3. Spell and weapon tier multipliers
4. Attribute modifiers
5. Base damage multipliers
6. Normalized damage ( +Spell / +CA / +Heal amounts )
7. Critical multiplier


Base Damage Calculations

Takes the base level of damage a given spell, CA, or weapon will do and calculates its damage dealt by way of using the random number generator (RNG) to find the initial value of damage within the given range.

Weapon Multipliers and DPS Multiplers

Factors in +DPS amounts and possibly contains damage ratio modifiers for weapons of different min vs. max damage ranges. Not exatly sure what is meant by "weapon multipliers"

Spell and Weapon Tier Multipliers

These are some of the multipliers that seem to remain somewhat of a mystery. It is assumed that spell multipliers are referring to spell level and quality such as spell level vs. the level of the mob, or spell quality such as in a Master tier spell does more damage than Adept. Weapon tier multipliers are believed to be a modifier calculated on the level of the weapon, its rarity tag, such as Legendary vs. Fabled vs. Mythical and such. Not sure on this one as well.

Attribute Modifiers

Adds in any modifiers for stats such as STR or INT based on the type of attack done, i.e. weapon vs. spell. Higher attributes will add more to the modifier the closer to attribute cap. Factors in actual percentage of total damage for say spells based on the deminishing returns for said attribute.

Base Damage Multipliers

Increases added due to base damage level multipliers such as having a 10% base damage bonus to all spells, CA's or melee damage, etc.

Normalized Damage

Adds in +Spell, CA, Heal and ?? proc effects??

Critical Damage Calculations

Multiplies all the above damage by their final values with your critical damage multiplier (max+1 - max *1.3) for the simplified example, if applicable.


Any more accurate input or clarification of what may be inaccurate would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

pumpula

Anyone have more detailed or accurate info on this topic? Please post if so.

Hoss

Well, i know whenever a brigand says 'dispatch' in raid chat, I tend to do more damage. Don't know why the game mechanics would care about whats being said in raid chat though. I think tomorrow I'm going to try saying it a bunch and see how far my dps goes up.

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Cythera

http://www.eq2flames.com/wizards/119...ard-guide.html

Section 6 in this guide covers most of what you are asking about.
Try the other class forum guides. They might cover the rest.

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pumpula

Thanks for the reply cythera, I am very familiar with the wizard DPS post. However it doesnt give alot of the info I am looking for. How things are calculated is easy to find info on, Im more interested in how each of these things relate to each other in the final order of calculations and discovering some of the missing info if possilbe. I have updated my post for a bit more clarity below, I'm still having problems getting edit capabilities ironed out, but for now i will just post a modified post here.

*********

I wanted to gather everyones thoughts on this and try to put together clear answer to how exactly this all works or what exactly it is referring to. Most of this info we already have a very good understanding of but some of it remains a bit undefined. Without SoE releasing some of the missing info, which im sure is going to be next to impossible, it would be hard to come up with formulas that are 100% accurate.

I applogize if this was cleared up fully somewhere else but after searching for hours I havent found anything near as detailed as what im looking for in one place. Some of this is pure speculation.

What we do know presently is a summarization that was recently released detailing the current order of how damage is calculated. I want to expand on this to more accurately define what was officially released via the GU# 50 update notes:

1. Base damage calculations
2. Weapon attacks add in DPS and weapon multipliers
3. Spell and weapon tier multipliers
4. Attribute modifiers
5. Base damage multipliers
6. Normalized damage ( +Spell / +CA / +Heal amounts )
7. Critical multiplier


1) Base Damage Calculations

Takes the base level of damage a given spell, CA, or weapon will do and calculates its damage dealt by way of using the random number generator (RNG) to find the initial value of damage within the given range. Pretty safe to say a fully accurate definition.

2) Weapon Multipliers and DPS Multiplers

All subclasses have a base weapon multiplier. This applies to weapon damage as spells do not have this. Also factored in are any +DPS amounts.

*The exact multipliers used I don't believe have been officially released but I have found a thread that suggests it is similar to the following:

Preists / Mages : 1.1
Fighters / Scounts : 1.9
Brawler / Predators : 2.0

*May also contains damage ratio modifiers for weapons of different min vs. max damage ranges.

3) Spell and Weapon Tier Multipliers

It is assumed that spell multipliers are referring to spell level and quality such as spell level vs. the level of the mob or spell quality such as in a Master tier spell does more damage than Adept.

*Weapon Tier multipliers are believed to be a modifier calculated on the level of the weapon, its rarity tag, such as Legendary vs. Fabled vs. Mythical and such. This is another of those "not officially release" assumptions to the best of my knowledge.

4) Attribute Modifiers

Adds in any modifiers for the value of the stat affecting the type of attack done, i.e. weapon/combat arts (STR) vs. spells (INT). Higher attributes will add more to the modifier the closer you are to attribute cap.

These modifiers are factored in as percentages of the total maximum possible damage relative to that attributes value based on the deminishing returns curvature. At 1220 INT for example, your spell would recieve 100% of the possible attribute modifier hitting for the maximum possible damage.

5) Base Damage Multipliers

Increases base damage amount by factoring in any base damage multipliers, such as having an item that gives you a +10% base damage bonus to all spells or an AA ability that modifies the base damage. Having higher base damage values further increase the caps for normalized damage as well.

6) Normalized Damage

Next thing to factor in is +Spell Damage, +CA Damage (both adding in 33% for AoE attacks)

*+Heal effects were also listed but honestly it should have been left off as they are not damage related. Was probably just a typo since generally people put all three in the normalized damage catagory. If anyone can explain how +heal factors into DAMAGE, please share. I'm sure heal calculations follow a similar structure minus a few things but for now ill just leave this annotated as such.

7) Critical Damage Calculations

Multiplies all the above final values with your critical damage multiplier. This can be further improved with gear that gives critical damage bonus modifiers, but the simplified default formula being:

Crit damage range = (max+1) to (max *1.3)


Any more accurate input or clarification of what may be inaccurate would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

Dextera

7. Critical Damage

1. Roll = RNG(Min to Max) [Calculated from Previous Steps]
1a. Crit Check (Did it Crit? Yes/No) If yes then...
2. Dmg = Roll * CritMultiplier
3. If Dmg < Max+1 then Dmg = Max+1

While the range is from Max+1 to Max*CritMult, that doesn't mean it's choosing a random integer inside of that range. Instead, if the lowest possible Roll*CritMult is less than Max+1, then there is a weighting that must occur for some values.


I.e.

MinDmg: 500
MaxDmg: 1000
CritMult: 1.3

CritDmg = RNG(Min:Max) * CritMult
if CritDmg < Max+1 then CritDmg = Max+1

Values < Max+1 : 269
Values >= Max+1 : 231


You have a 53.8% chance (a 500-769 roll) of rolling a Max+1 hit, and a 46.2% (a 770-1000 roll) chance of rolling a hit between Max+1 and Max*CritMult in this scenario. The numbers change as the multiplier and spread changes.

MinDmg: 900
MaxDmg: 1000
CritMult: 1.3

Values < Max+1 : 0
Valuies > Max+1 : 100

Every Dmg = Roll*CritMult will result in a dmg greather than Max+1. Furthermore, the actual Dmg Range is between Min*CritMult (1170) and Max*CritMult (1300). The low damage spread and critical multiplier actually raised the "floor" dmg of the spell.

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Khatiru

Hmm... lets see... some dated info...

From 06..

It has been posted by a Dev how the +spell damage mods are supposed to work now.
For DD spells. the +damage is normalized to casting time. With 3 seconds being the norm.
Ie if you ahve a +100 mod and a spell that takes 3 seconds to cast, it will gain +100 damage.
If the spell takes 1.5 seconds to cast, it will only gain +50 damage (and +200 if it took 6 seconds to cast).

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The way the mods work on dots is it spreads the damage across all tics.
Working with the +100 damage mod again, if your DOT has 5 tics, you will get +20 damage to each tic. 4 tics would have +25 damage to each.

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+65 damage from cloak, on Single target nuke with 1 sec cast time = 65/3 (for 1 sec cast time) = +22
+65 damage from cloak on 3 tick dot with a .5 second cast time = 65/6 (for .5 cast time)/3 (for number of ticks) = +4 to each tick.

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Dot's dont use the casting time to normalize. They normalize based on the number of ticks. If its less than 5 ticks then the benefit amount is reduced. AOE spells also get a further reduction due to the fact you are likely going to hit multiple creatures with it. Once all of that is done the total amount remaining is split over the total dot ticks. My previous example for a dot was probably too simple so sorry for any confusion that resulted from it.
And before someone else asks it, the casting time used is the base casting time not your hasted casting time from items/achievements.

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and now from 08.. you prolly read this already

Several have asked how is the 50% cap on +spell damage is calculated, and why do some spells seem not to get to 150%. The answers are here. I tested 10 wizard spells of differing types, at 2 INT levels. I have simplified each type into a round number generic, listed below, for eyeball relief when reading.

1. Generic Single Target Direct Damage:
Spells have a minimum and maximum damage shown on the spell icon when you mouse over it. +spell adds to both, until it caps at half each of their values.
Example 1: Hits for 500 - 900.
Base Damage 500 - 900
adding +100 600 - 1000 no caps reached.
adding +300 750 - 1200 the minimum caps at 250 (half of 500) while the max takes all +300.
adding +500 750 - 1350 the minimum is already capped. The maximum caps at 450 (half of 900).
This example is totally capped at +450 to spell.

On mouseover the spell icon would now read:
Hits for 750 - 1350

2. Generic Single Target Damage over Time:
Example 2: Hits for 100 - 180 initially, and every second for 4 seconds. (Totals 5 ticks)
To calculate single target Dot damage gain due to +spell effects, the total damage if it ticks out is required to be calculated. In this example, it is 5 ticks x each of the endpoints.
Base dot range 100 - 180
total damage 500 - 900 total tick damage range
The same rules as example 1 are now applied to endpoints:
adding +100 600 - 1000 no caps reached
adding +300 750 - 1200 the minimum caps at 250 (half of 500) while the max takes all 300
adding +500 750 - 1350 the minimum is already capped. The maximum caps at 450 (half of 900)
The total damage increase for the spell is computed:
Increase: 250 - 450 and will be applied to the first tick.
On mouseover the spell icon would now read:
Hits for 350 - 630 initially, and 100 - 180 every second for 4 seconds.
Note: some DoT spells already have a frontloaded damage profile. The +spell addition still works the same way. First calculate the damage endpoint totals if the spell ticked out, then calculate the cap min and max additions, then apply the additional damage to the first tick of the spell. (Which frontloads it even more)

3. Generic Multiple Target Direct Damage (locked or unlocked):
Example 3: Hits target encounter for 500 - 900
Multiple target DD gain due to +spell is normalized to 3 targets. This limits the addition on the spell listing to 1/3 of the STDD amount.
Base Damage 500 - 900
adding +100 583 - 1000 minimum cap of 250 for single targets divided by 3. Maximum side is not yet capped.
adding +300 583 - 1050 minimum capped above, Maximum caps at 450 / 3
adding +500 583 - 1050 both minimum and maximum are already capped.
This example is totally capped at +150 to spell damage.
On mouseover the spell icon would now read:
Hits target encounter for 583 - 1050

4. Generic Multiple Target Damage over Time:
Example 4: Hits target encounter for 100 - 180 initially, and every second for 4 seconds. (Totals 5 ticks)
Because it is a DoT, the total damage if it ticks out is required to be calculated. In this example, it is 5 ticks x each of the endpoints.
Base dot range 100 - 180
total damage 500 - 900 total tick out range
Because it is an AOE, it is normalized to 3 targets. This means the damage cap is 1/3 the damage cap of single target DoTs :
adding +100 583 - 1000 minimum cap of 250 for single targets divides by 3. Maximum not yet capped.
adding +300 583 - 1050 minimum capped above, Maximum caps at 450 / 3
adding +500 583 - 1050 both minimum and maximum are already capped.
The total damage increase is computed:
Increase: 83 - 150 and will be applied to the first tick.
On mouseover the spell icon would now read:
Hits target encounter for 183 - 330 initially, and 100 - 180 every second for 4 seconds.

5. How does adding INT affect the +spell damage?
INT increases the base damage range, so the caps are higher as you add spell damage gear.
Repeating Example 1, but adding 300 INT will increase the base damage 10%.
1. Generic Single Target Direct Damage:
Example 5 (STDD from 1 above with 300 INT added now reads on spell icon: Hits for 550 - 990.
Base Damage 550 - 990
adding +100 650 - 1090 no caps reached.
adding +300 825 -- 1290 the minimum caps at 275 (half of 550) while the max takes all 300.
adding +500 825 - 1485 the minimum is already capped. The maximum caps at 495 (half of 990).
This example is totally capped at +495.
On mouseover the spell icon would now read:
Hits for 825 - 1485 compared to 750 - 1350 from example 1, where it was 300 INT lower.

Points that sometimes confuse are:
1 AOEs are normalized to 3 targets, so you will never see 150% on anything on the spell icon. If it hits 3 targets you'll be at 150%.
2. Dots are calculated off the total damage if it ticks out, and applied to the first tick. You'll not see 150% on any number on the icon, but it is there if you've capped the maximum side.
3. AOE dots are confusing on the display due to both the frontloading, and the 3 target normalization.
4. High level spells may never cap out, as you have to get to 50% of the maximum. I don't see +5000 to spell damage happening with the gear drops that are being seen, and even that would not cap some spells.
5. Most +spell gear has INT on it, which may raise or lower the base reading before the cap calculation when you swap it out. You may be looking for 150% of a base that no longer exists. Plus to spell is always better than a few INT points lost, however.

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oh and umm a little later in 08 about dimishing returns

+Spell Damage / +Combat Art Damage / +Heals
Hard Cap: 50% of damage/heal of the skill

Weapons
Double Attack and Crits Hard Cap = 100% (no soft cap)

Weapon Crit Calculation: [ Crit% * 1.09 [ max - min ] + max + min ] / delay
Use /weaponstats to get the real numbers depending on your gear/current buffs.

Stats (str/agi/sta/int/wis)
Hard Cap : [ 15 * level + 20 ] = 1220 at level 80.
Soft Cap: approx 800


yeah its hard to talk about with out thinking about caps

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What good is life without a little bit of death?

Harowen

Fixed your aoe spells for you. the div/3 modifier adjusts the benefit received by the usable spell amount.

So for your examples here:
500 can use 250 mod, 250/3 = 83
900 can use 450 mod, 450/3 = 150