Anyone else with 2 Crusaders?

Rottenapple · 10-05-2009, 09:52 PM

I've had an SK now since Aug 07, before that I was a Monk, before that a Fury, and before that a assassin at launch ( yeah I did all the bs, betrayed a wood elf, and took 2 weeks of hell to accomplish )

So, I always enjoyed my SK, even pre-TSO. We were always powerful AoE tanks, the main thing we lacked then...and do now. Mitigation and Avoidance.

After playing my Pally now, just got 80 a week ago, have my myth T2/3 mix, working on finishing off the 200AA.

I notice when I switch between the Tanks, the SK definitely does more DPS, but I feel so squishy on the SK after playing on the Pally.

I take so little damage with the Paladin, I have more Mit/Avoidance than the SK and I am only in mostly T2, while the SK is full T3+

I've been tweaking the spec a bit, working on DPS, I went heavy into the Tanking things I did on my SK and I think I can sacrifice quite a bit of them to find some DPS elsewhere for the Paladin.

Anyway, anyone else playing both of the Crusaders? Thoughts?

Humi · 10-06-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rottenapple

Anyway, anyone else playing both of the Crusaders? Thoughts?

NO! fucking curse you for even thinking about or speaking of such a thing.

Shame on you!!!!! you are never suppose to let them touch.....

Mezelline · 10-06-2009, 11:04 PM

I've played both...I'm one of those traitors =)

SKs are indeed more squishy than Pallys until you get the AAs...shadowknight's furor is just too uber, paladins have nothing that even remotely compares. If pallys did have an equivilent, the two tanks would be balanced imho.

SKs solo better, largely because their lifetaps mean that they don't have to waste time on pure heals. Although tbh soloing doesn't matter too much...with raid gear pretty much any class can solo something like KC.

SKs have better buffs too. 10% cast/recast is the best groupwide buff in the game that doesn't come from a bard. Base spell damange is much more valuable than base heal, and on top of that SKs got death march and essence siphon to boost spell DPS even more. The only thing that pallys offer buff wise is an extra 800 or so physical mit to the raid. Which is awesome, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't outstrip the large quantity of tools that SKs get.

Pallys definitely hold better aggro though. SKs are no slouch when it comes to aggro control...But for memwiping/blurring mobs you simply cannot beat amends. Grave sacrament is too unreliable in single group scenarios, and the blue AE nature of the ability makes it a pain to offtank with it in raids. Holy ground may not take you up the hate list as quickly as sacrament, but its a much more useful tool because you can easily control your hate on any mob.

I've found that most people under-rate pally dps too. In AE dps fights they should be parsing just as high as any SK; they might not have the SK dps-enhancing buffs, but they have 2 extra AEs on top of SKs. True, their single target dps is a bit lower than for SKs, but it's not as big a gap as is commonly believed.

It's about a 10% dps, 10% utility, and 10% survivability differential in favor of SK. And a 50% aggro differential in favor of paladin. That being said, aggro control is not an important factor in this expansion...so its obvious why SKs are the more popular crusader.

Harowen · 10-09-2009, 05:50 PM

As a coercer I much prefer grouping with an sk than a pally. Even with the pally having amends on me, their significant lack of dps means I still rip aggro off of whatever they're not targeting.

As stated prior, 10% cast/reuse is the best group buff in the game. Not only do pally's not have anything to compare, no other tank class has anything remotely close either.

Maybe it's just the mentality behind the class, but almost all the sk's I've grouped with have been more gung-ho dps focused and the pally's tend to be more guardian-like in mentality focusing on defensive gear and survivability instead of dps.

Dusty97 · 10-12-2009, 12:47 AM

Why would you not target or at least assist through the tank in a group instance?

curuw · 10-12-2009, 10:26 AM

my pally is 72 i just hate fucking rok+tso questing

Stonestrong · 10-12-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harowen

As a coercer I much prefer grouping with an sk than a pally. Even with the pally having amends on me, their significant lack of dps means I still rip aggro off of whatever they're not targeting.

As stated prior, 10% cast/reuse is the best group buff in the game. Not only do pally's not have anything to compare, no other tank class has anything remotely close either.

Maybe it's just the mentality behind the class, but almost all the sk's I've grouped with have been more gung-ho dps focused and the pally's tend to be more guardian-like in mentality focusing on defensive gear and survivability instead of dps.

You must be grouping/raiding with some terrible paladins. The last problem any Paladin should have is aggro. The only 2 things that a Shadowknight has that I'd like would be the +10 casting and reuse and Furor. Other than that I have played both extensively and I will trade off the extra dps for the other tools we have available any day......

Sylvanking · 10-12-2009, 12:41 PM

Couple things ..

Mid 70's crusader is very painful, you may find yourself solo questing to 80. You aren't useful as a tank because there are so many 80's running around and with gear the way it is the gap between what a mid 70 is and a fully geared 80 is ..is HUGE. A fully geared out 80 scout with full aas speced for it can basically tank better than a mid 70 crusader. Another thing ... did anyone mention bloodletter? Sks have bloodletter! Yeah and they solo faster cause of more dps.

curuw · 10-12-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanking

Couple things ..

Mid 70's crusader is very painful, you may find yourself solo questing to 80. You aren't useful as a tank because there are so many 80's running around and with gear the way it is the gap between what a mid 70 is and a fully geared 80 is ..is HUGE. A fully geared out 80 scout with full aas speced for it can basically tank better than a mid 70 crusader. Another thing ... did anyone mention bloodletter? Sks have bloodletter! Yeah and they solo faster cause of more dps.

wow that was dumb

boli · 10-12-2009, 03:14 PM

I have a noobie SK and a vastly overplayed pally.. on the whole paladins abiilties are generally split over two spells in order to gain the same effect SKs have and SKs are easier to pick up and play.

i.e. whilst the paladin may cast a spell and then cast a heal, an SK uses a lifetap (or reaver) and does both; however the pally will heal more. Sacrement one spell dps +target lock, pally holy ground + separate ability target lock.

That is the biggest real difference between the two. On the whole I say palys are more powerful than SK WHERE IT COUNTS, loose out in group buffs and overall dps but I would never betray