dual bard groups, still worth it?

Davngr · 10-30-2009, 06:07 AM

so .. 70-79 is always fun on crushbone because of the high level of nub's that like to think they're right and my love for arguing.

tonight was no different.. and a worth while topic came about.

i joking around said that SK have so much utility for their group that unless they give some other tanks there is gonna be 4 sk in raid soon.. I WAS JOKING..

of course one of the local raid retards decided to challenge this... my dps group for any dps class would be as follows:

sk,bard,cleric,mystic,chanter + dps class
i know that i few tweaks would be done here and there maybe dropping a healer and adding a chanter but over all this is imo the best set up.

said asshat decided to argue that the best dps group is:
troub,dirge,illy,coer,inquis + dps class
this is not a bad group for the most part, yes i rather have a second healer for stability/cures/buffs but still i cant argue this, it would be moot.

ON the other hand the double bard to me is a waste after the gu 53 or whatever it read as follows:
Item based triggered effects can no longer critical or have their damage components modified unless done directly through something like an achievement or set bonus.

a dirge never did anything for a caster (dps wise) and does even less(if that's possible) now that their procs are based on melee and now with procs doing way less dmg luck of the dirge is meh...

troub does jack shit for scouts now too, str buff,5 cirt, 20 haste, 10% and some deagro just don't seem like reason enough to waste a troub on a scout. you will also notice that most of what 80% of what the troub would give the scout is all ready capped in raid for the most part.

so i would rather give this spot to a SK or second healer or both if you follow my set up.

it's a good topic, i think there are still raiding guilds out there that think the double bard benefit all scouts and mages when in fact it only benefits hybrids.

thoughts?

Vond · 10-30-2009, 07:35 AM

I love double-bard groups, but then again I'm a dirge so I benefit from it so my opinion on the subject doesn't matter too much ;)

curuw · 10-30-2009, 09:34 AM

as sk i have to say YES
i need more double bard groups!

the_mo · 10-30-2009, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davngr

troub,dirge,illy,coer,inquis + dps class
this is not a bad group for the most part, yes i rather have a second healer for stability/cures/buffs but still i cant argue this, it would be moot.

that one is actually easy. just kick the coercer and add a mystic for more awesome buffs and you get a pretty kickass group... assuming "dps class" refers to assassin

Davngr · 10-30-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_mo

that one is actually easy. just kick the coercer and add a mystic for more awesome buffs and you get a pretty kickass group... assuming "dps class" refers to assassin

it's suppose to be good for "any" dps class not just assy.

also you would be loosing dmg if you got rid of one chanter but kept both bards. why is that? because only one bard will benefit what ever type of dps class you choose. ie. troub for mage and dirge for scout

two chanters would at least give two pom's practicably endless mana even with against the most relentless mana draining mob. so the second chanter has his advantages. on the other hand i would say getting rid of the second chanter for an sk would be beneficial for many dps classes. 10% reuse/cast and death march immunity/casting haste would IMO net you more dmg then the second pom proc. but you're definetly right about the healer wards/spirit tap/roa/ancestry makes mystic the prime choice.

Enyeto · 10-30-2009, 12:08 PM

Both bards and both enchanters will waste only a couple buffs at best BUT, Mr. Original Poster, as you have said dirge does nothing for mages and troub visa versa, however; you are not looking at the grand scheme.

For instance:
50% of the group is melee
50% of the group is casting

If your 'dps' class is actually a tank, best option would be zerk, pally or sk.

Crusader has several magical abilities and a good amount of physical abilities taking advantage of everything in group.

Enchanters will continually have PoM up with little down time and at the same time you will have PoTM or CoB up fairly consistently.
They will also benefit from the troub

The tank and both scouts will benefit from the dirge for its obvious reasons.

On top of that you have both bard defensive and offensive buffs stacked + 2x crowd control if it is ever necessary.

**IMO why have a healer, just slot a warlock or wizard in that spot and have a pally tank and heal himself.

Argyuile · 10-30-2009, 01:37 PM

As a dirge I am pro Dirge + Troub groups. +25DA alone is awesome, trade UT for BC and let the games begin.

Stonestrong · 10-30-2009, 01:58 PM

Dirge, Troubador, Shadowknight, Chanter, Inquisitor, DPS Class (I like to put a brig / sorcerer / assassin into this group).....

Milambers · 10-30-2009, 02:17 PM

Dirge, Troubador, Illusionist, Sorcerer, Melee dps, Inq. (dps 1)

Troubador, Illy, Coercer, Inq, SK, Sorcerer. (dps 2)

Davngr · 10-30-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enyeto

Both bards and both enchanters will waste only a couple buffs at best BUT, Mr. Original Poster, as you have said dirge does nothing for mages and troub visa versa, however; you are not looking at the grand scheme.
i'm not missing anything, this is a discussion about buffing true dps not hybrid classes.
For instance:
50% of the group is melee
50% of the group is casting

the group is to complement the dps class not the tank or utillity, and after the update double bards do nothing for any scout or mage.
If your 'dps' class is actually a tank, best option would be zerk, pally or sk.

why would i use a tank as a dps class? seriuosly

Crusader has several magical abilities and a good amount of physical abilities taking advantage of everything in group.

again there is NO intention to buff the tanks dps..

Enchanters will continually have PoM up with little down time and at the same time you will have PoTM or CoB up fairly consistently.
They will also benefit from the troub
sure the double chanter pom is nice but what good is it if your constantly affected by detrimentals? you seen wht they do? -200% crit *when caster, cast he will be interupted* damg shilds, delevels.. there is a myrad of effects striking all raiders at any given time and you frankly don't think that wasting a slot on a second bard is costly?

The tank and both scouts will benefit from the dirge for its obvious reasons.

On top of that you have both bard defensive and offensive buffs stacked + 2x crowd control if it is ever necessary.
this is a raid... troub tank buffs are meh and dirge caster buffs are non existant... crowd control? wtf? are you new?

**IMO why have a healer, just slot a warlock or wizard in that spot and have a pally tank and heal himself.
again.. wtf?

first off this is suppose to be a dps group set up for a raid, so the pally healing him self is not even an option.

second, this is a group to min/max a dps class not the utility classes.

double bard groups only benefit bards and crusaders, thus a double bard goups does next to nothing for a true dps class.