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  1. #1
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    Default training dummy hit rates

    I think this got lost in the stupidity of that other thread, so I wanted to post it where hopefully more people will benefit.

    I did quite a bit of testing of hit rates on training dummies over the last couple of days, to try and verify/make sense of what Xelgad posted about combat mechanics.

    I used my level 90 bruiser in various combinations of gear and buffs to achieve the listed crushing skill and accuracy. All dummies were level 90, and the toon was never mentored. The skill is recorded from the Skill tab of the Persona window. The hits/swings are recorded from ACT (no, I won't post screenshots of any of it...if you don't believe me, run your own tests and refute my results with your own real data).

    From the results below, you can see that there exists a maximum benefit on hit rate vs. training dummies for increasing weapon skill, and that the maximum differs between the types of dummies. The difference is a very regular progression, showing pretty clearly that you need 50 more weapon skill to maximize its benefit as training dummy difficulty increases. The rate of increase in hit rate is very linear, and the same for each type of dummy, at about 0.2% per point of weapon skill. Additionally, the maximum hit rate achievable by raising weapon skill decreases as training dummy difficulty increases (from 97% -> 93% -> 88%).

    Finally, I ran one test on each type of dummy with maximum hit rate from weapon skill and 5% accuracy (from the bruiser buff Brutality w/ AA's). These tests show that 5% accuracy yields an increase in hit rate of very close to 5%, and that one's maximum hit rate can be increased beyond the maximum achievable by raising weapon skill alone.

    The maximum values used for these tests (weapon skill and accuracy) are the maximum that I can reasonably achieve on the toon used to perform the tests. I don't have a dirgebot, sorry, and the results are clear enough that I don't feel the need to spend marks/seals/plats on accuracy adornments.

    Now, how this applies to normal mobs is not necessarily clear. One could assume that the increase in weapon skill needed between the types of training dummies indicates an increase in defense skill (based on what Xelgad posted), such that level 90 non-heroic (no ^'s) mobs have 450 defense, level 90 heroic (^^^) mobs have 500 defense, and level 90 epic mobs have 550 defense. These are, of course, base values, and could be further modified (by a "buff package").


    Solo Training Dummy, no accuracy
    ---------------------------------
    450 skill -> 75% hits (1208/1620)
    500 skill -> 83% hits (1385/1671)
    550 skill -> 96% hits (1552/1617)
    600 skill -> 97% hits (1169/1204)
    650 skill -> 97% hits (1124/1164)
    704 skill -> 97% hits (696/720)

    Solo Training Dummy, 5% accuracy
    ----------------------------------
    600 skill -> 100% hits (1074/1074)

    Heroic Training Dummy, no accuracy
    -----------------------------------
    450 skill -> 64% hits (1242/1953)
    500 skill -> 73% hits (1188/1636)
    550 skill -> 84% hits (1611/1920)
    600 skill -> 93% hits (1611/1730)
    650 skill -> 93% hits (1326/1430)
    704 skill -> 93% hits (1629/1760)

    Heroic Training Dummy, 5% accuracy
    ----------------------------------
    704 skill -> 98% hits (1509/1544)

    Epic Training Dummy, no accuracy
    -----------------------------------
    450 skill -> 48% hits (612/1275)
    500 skill -> 58% hits (294/504)
    600 skill -> 78% hits (1270/1621)
    650 skill -> 87% hits (1407/1613)
    704 skill -> 88% hits (2683/3053)

    Epic Training Dummy, 5% accuracy
    ----------------------------------
    704 skill -> 92% hits (1487/1624)


  2. #2
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    Default Re: training dummy hit rates

    nice post man.

    still wish you could have posted parse screen shots but oh well.

  3. #3
    Celestial Voices dakkota's Avatar
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    Default Re: training dummy hit rates

    Resists are nuts on those heroic training dummies. Glad the dev quoted my post and reassured that they wouldn't be resist heavy, or gave light to that notion. Not that I had any faith in them not resisting, especially when they learn about half their game mechanics from players. Sometimes on a group of 8 dummies I've seen aoe spell hit rates go as low as 89%...in mage speak thats really bad. Even with a furnace of ro below it!

  4. #4
    make war, not love firamas's Avatar
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    Default Re: training dummy hit rates

    Quote Originally Posted by dakkota View Post
    Sometimes on a group of 8 dummies I've seen aoe spell hit rates go as low as 89%...in mage speak thats really bad. Even with a furnace of ro below it!
    I thought your ability to outright resist was tied to WIS, whereas the mitigation on a resist was the... mitigation stat. Sort of like the physical version of avoidance/mitigation, but for spells.

  5. #5
    Celestial Voices dakkota's Avatar
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    Default Re: training dummy hit rates

    Whatever its tied to, it sucks ass! And yeah prolly right though. I keep forgetting that detail. I don't know the resist mechanics will but the fact they're still hellacious on dummies is ugh ><.

  6. #6
    make war, not love firamas's Avatar
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    Default Re: training dummy hit rates

    which mage wants to volunteer to take off any resistability procs and test this same shit for Disruption against the epic dummy?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: training dummy hit rates

    Quote Originally Posted by firamas View Post
    I thought your ability to outright resist was tied to WIS, whereas the mitigation on a resist was the... mitigation stat. Sort of like the physical version of avoidance/mitigation, but for spells.
    the ability to our right resist a spell use to be tied to WIS but is now tied to STA.

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    Default Re: training dummy hit rates

    Quote Originally Posted by firamas View Post
    which mage wants to volunteer to take off any resistability procs and test this same shit for Disruption against the epic dummy?
    Stop looking my way - do it yourself! I"m too lazy.

    I'd also like to see debuffs thrown into the mix and see if/how much, they affect hit rates.

    So much easier for melees to test this... autoattack and go watch tv or something....

    From what I've been reading, though, the level of the weapon will affect hit rates (as will the level of the spell used). Supposedly old tier masters resist more than current tier experts, on orange mobs anyway, as an example. (Still never tested that myself yet).

    Pro post though!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: training dummy hit rates

    Quote Originally Posted by LightCC View Post
    Stop looking my way - do it yourself! I"m too lazy.

    I'd also like to see debuffs thrown into the mix and see if/how much, they affect hit rates.

    So much easier for melees to test this... autoattack and go watch tv or something....

    From what I've been reading, though, the level of the weapon will affect hit rates (as will the level of the spell used). Supposedly old tier masters resist more than current tier experts, on orange mobs anyway, as an example. (Still never tested that myself yet).

    Pro post though!
    yea i did this with my scout to get the melee skill over the defense skill even further but i couldn't get any constant reads. maybe when im bored ill box a few of my debuffing classes with my scout to see if i can get a consistent boost.

    edit.

    but i don't think it will do much for finding out what the resist rates for mages will do since there is no "spell defense" as other devs have stated.

    i have no idea how disruption would roll against STA to dictate a resist rate.

  10. #10
    make war, not love firamas's Avatar
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    Default Re: training dummy hit rates

    Quote Originally Posted by LightCC View Post
    So much easier for melees to test this... autoattack and go watch tv or something....
    Mages can put their fast recast nuke to hotkey 1, have a program hit it every few seconds, and come back later. Same deal.

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