gungo

I liked this idea i posted so i figure i would give it its own thread.
Here are some crazy ideas brought about from this thread.

Step 1
Remove uncontested avodiance from shield block.
No tank needs uncontested avodiance to tank epic encounters in the first place. Warrior tanking/avodiance is already entirely to easy.

Step 2
Make amends raid wide
Now you have a reason to bring a paladin on raid. He can now control the overagroer as well as being the best agro OT. Leave the + 90 heal thing in (non raid wide) who cares its useless anyway. Put strength back in though most paladins rather have the strength thats how bad + heals are.

Step 3
Make some bard buffs that require concentration raid wide. The main reason why a bard or enc has to be in each group is power regen. So at least make Bria's raid wide. It actually makes the most sense. Can even split the value in half and allow a raid wide dirge bria and troub bria to stack thus requiring both classes.

Step 4
Give monks a group (not raid wide) buff that increases spell and combat art speed by 10%. Give them an ability that lowers their group hate (if not fighter). Fighters are suppose to protect and control the battle, not buff.

Step 5
Change the entire bruiser interception AA line it still makes no sense.
rank 1 increase reuse of all intercpetion, rank 2 adds a damage absorbtion, rank 3 lower hate postion if not fighter increases hate position if fighter., rank 4 adds 10% hitpoints and adds absorbtion to bruiser. This Allow bruisers a way to lower or raise the hate position of a single ally. Leave the taunt detaunt thing in but make it a group only buff who cares its still useless anyway.

HOLY SHIT HEAR IS A NOVEL IDEA. REMOVE BLOCK FROM BEING UNCONTESTED. THEN FOR EACH FIGHTER IN RAID THE MAIN TANK WILL TANK BETTER.

Step 6
The avoid other fighter buff raid wide is a good idea, but 1 step from being right. Make different versions (as in not 2 monks on same person stacking) stack and then give each fighter a different version, then make it cost a concentration slot per target.

Monks- Target has a 10% chance to stone skin master 1. <- i would take 1 monk on raid for this.

Bruiser- Target has an extra 10% damage absorbtion at master 1. < i would take 1 bruiser on raid for this.

Paladin- Targets Heal spells are 15% more effective <- i would take 1 paladin on raid for this

Shadowknight- Targets damage spells are 15% more effective < i would take 1 shadowknight on raid for this

Guard- leave it as it currently on live, but raid wide. <- who cares they are the main tank and just got alot better with these buffs still a useful ability for a guard in raid.

Bezerker- Siphons 10% of targets agro if not fighter, transfers 10% of agro if fighter. <- i would take 1 bezerker on raid for this, think about this for a sec the bezerker can be a funnel for agro to the guard absorbing 3-4 people and transfering it to the main tank.

HOLY SHIT DOES THIS MEAN W A FIGHTER IN RAID IT MAKES OTHER PEOPLE DO A BETTER JOB AND THEN IT LIMITS THE ABILITY BASED ON CONC SLOTS. WHAT A NOVEL FUCKING IDEA.

I will say this once again the raid wide buffs DO NOT FIX a need for more then 3 fighters in raids. It is a wash. The above idea actually creates a need for multiple fighter and follows a fightrers role of protecting and controling the tide of battle. It helps in both raid and group settings and if done right is not unbalanced. The above numbers can be changed, but the idea behind them allows a reaosn for all 6 fighters to come on raids.

Epitaphe

How about a big fat NO?

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Couch

I have several comments.

If you made amend raid wide, pal will be MT forever since no body can taunt mobs off him.

Second, make bard buff raid wide is good idea so that people are not going to invite 3 rd or 4th bard. Same as enchanter.

gungo

No what?
Tanking is not trivial/easy?
Warriors do not avoid more then brawlers?
Uncontested avodiance is overpowered when it reach 30-40% numbers?

What no are we talking about. The main premise of removing uncontested avodiance is to allow other fighters to increase the Maintanks ability to tank w/o it being trivial.

My proof uncontested avodiance is overpowered. Guardians are currently tanking in offensive stance w a shield and losing very little to no avodiance % in the parse. The end thank you have a nice day. Coem back again when you buy a clue.

gungo

How? We know now currently hate transfers/siphons cap at 50%.

How is a paladins agro w amends, More powerful then say a guard w a dirge, coercer, swash in Mt group. O wait they are not they are both capped at 50% transfer and 50% hate gain w the new hate rules. Furthermore a guard still has more personal dps and his get out of jail free cards in "tower of stone" and 'reinforcements". Neither of which a paladin can touch. I am not sayign this will not make paladins better tanks. it will but i don't see them taking the MT role w amends beign raid wide.

Btw we have used raistin (guild paladin) to Main tank in EH w amends on a caster. Paladin, illusionist, warlock, dirge, defiler, templer. This gave him 25% double atk, amends on a warlock w time compression, 41% hate gain, and it was not overpowered, even though he was near both hate caps, then.

Pinski

Here's why a Paladin is far better than any other tank for aggro if amends is raid-wide. He gets the 50% Hate gain, AND you can put 50% hate gain on their amends target. Imagine this, Warlock in a group with a Dirge, Templar, Wizard, Illusionist, Ranger. Warlock gets hate-buffed from the Dirge, and Amends to the Paladin in the MT Group. Could you imagine how much hate gain that is? You're forgetting something, by making amends raid-wide you also have to understand group setups can change so much because of it, allowing even more hate and survivability.

Either way, your steps are dumb. It doesn't really change anything, the only way to make fighters more useful on raids is to actually make it so that fighters are needed for fights, rather than making it so that they're useful for being buffbots. I think I speak for a lot of fighters who rolled a fighter to TANK not to be a Bard or Enchanter. You're idea while good, is not suited to the Fighter Archetype. Fighters tank, pure and simple. They aren't there for buffs, however fights just need to be changed so that 6 fighters are needed, which based on the way the game is setup will never happen anyway.

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gungo

So wait your saying whiel although my idea is good and allows a role for each fighter to be allowed on raid under the premise of protecting and increasign the role of tanking, that it is dumb because it doesnt allow them to directly tank which will never happen anyway?

So why not at least cater to fighters so they have a role in raids in the first place. While all fighters want to tank many have accepted the fact they will not tank raids OFTEN as a brawler or crusader. So making a role for them is likely the best way to give them a chance. Yoru now generalizing all fighters when i know many brawlers and crusaders who don't want to tank raids.

and the amends thing i agree with i did not think of it that way, nor is making amends raid wide needed to fix paladins.

BTW my steps are not dumb they actually do what SOE is tryign to do and make all 6 fighters wanted on raids and in soem form help tanking indirectly.

Pinski

Because why bring a fighter if you could bring a dirge who'd still do a better job anyway? Instead you'd bring a fighter who does less and well, does nothing else? It would only improve guilds who don't min/max a lot. You'll see nothing different with giving them these buffs, unless it moves so far into Bard/Enchanter territory that you start pushing them out of a raid slot.

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gungo

For one these buffs stack.
2 if a dirge/troub brias became raid wide you would still need 1 of each bard. Power regen is pretty much mandatory for eahc group.

Troub w casters (deagro and such)
Dirge w scouts (Dps and COB)

an illusionist (mix group) will still be used for the addtional regen, IA, TC, dps< thier role doest change

a coercer ( mt group) will still be used for the additional power regen, hate gain/trans and whatever else they do.

fighters will not compete w those classes the new tanking skills do not compete w those classes.

Monks- Target has a 10% chance to stone skin master 1. <- i would take 1 monk on raid for this. This is a raid wide buff there is no role this is infringing on.

Bruiser- Target has an extra 10% damage absorbtion at master 1. < i would take 1 bruiser on raid for this. No class has this ability at all atm its already on a bruiser intercede line.

Paladin- Targets Heal spells are 15% more effective <- i would take 1 paladin on raid for this. This is a raid wide buff there is no role this infringes on

Shadowknight- Targets damage spells and combat arts are 15% more effective < i would take 1 shadowknight on raid for this. This is a raid wide buff there is no role this infringes on and actually increases the dps that is lost for the fighters that are now added into raid.

Guard- leave it as it currently on live, but raid wide. <- who cares they are the main tank and just got alot better with these buffs still a useful ability for a guard in raid. Already on test
no change except the conc slot and multipel targets

Bezerker- Siphons 10% of targets agro if not fighter, transfers 10% of agro if fighter. <- i would take 1 bezerker on raid for this, think about this for a sec the bezerker can be a funnel for agro to the guard absorbing 3-4 people and transfering it to the main tank. This is the closest to being overpowered and i was thinking it should be reduced to 5% siphon/transfer and yet there is no class that has this role at all currently siphoning and then transfering hate.

These changes should not compete w enc and bards. coupled w the changes to hate gain and if they removed uncontested avoidance will not trivilize encounters.

I would liek serious feedback here, use the above suggestions (minus the raid wide amends) and create a raid Min/Maxed.

gungo

I would liek serious feedback here, use the above suggestions (minus the raid wide amends), all the changes on test and then create a raid Min/Maxed.

a good raid setup would be:

Guard
templar
coercer- hate/transfer guard
defiler
swashbuckler- transfer guard
dirge- hate guard

Bezerker- siphon conj (or wizard), ranger - transfered to guard
Monk- Buff guard, zerk, paladin
assassin- tranfer on zerk
inqusitor
brigand
bruiser- buff guard, zerk, paladin

ranger
Paladin- (amend warlock) buff templar, defiler, mystic?
mystic- alacricity ranger
warden
warlock
illusionist- TC warlock, IA ranger

troubador
wizard
conjuror
necro
fury- agitate SK
Shadowknight- buff warlock, swash, wizard

I would have to look at the raid setup and maybe i would put in a second brigand in the raid if i were min/maxing, but i would have to look hard to find someone to remove. But if my suggestions worked who would you move out? My suggestions for the first time in eq2 will give everyone a role in raids. This creates 3 solid tanks w solid agro and 3 support tanks buffing other tanks in support roles. While maximising buffs and still providing good dps. Remeber this includes the idea that bria's troub/dirge is raid wide and everyone gets mana regen.