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Old 09-22-2007, 05:39 PM  
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Default Spell Formulas

A Conjuror's Guide to Basic Spell Order Calculations:

Introduction:
When using these formulas you will be calculating the ratio of damage of one spell compared to another. In essence you are saying for this area of spell casting this spell will perform better then the next spell and so on. Thus there is no direct casting order of spells, besides to line them up from best to worst according to their ratios and if a better spell is available to cast it before you cast a spell that has a worse ratio.


Basic Time Formulas:
I was reading around in the forums and noticed that the wizards class orders their spells by "Spell Efficiency." Spell efficiency can be a ratio for one of three things:
1) the amount of damage done for the time it takes to cast (cast time)
2) the amount of damage for the amount of power it takes each cast (power)
3) how much damage it can do when constantly pressed for a duration of time (recast time)

The formulas for each respectivly would be:

Damage
------------------- = TimePotency
CastingTime + .5s


Damage
------------ = PowerEffeciency
PowerAmount


Damage
------------ = DurationPotency
RecastTime


Some may wonder why I calculate by RecastTime instead of Duration for the 'Duration' potency. This is because the first tick of any dot receives all the +spell dmg modifications, you are actually loosing dmg by letting it tick for its full duration instead of recasting it (unless you have obtained gear that says otherwise). Now you are likely saying to yourself, "What? I casted that dot in 1 seconds and if I let it tick it will continue to do damage while I cast other spells, what an idiot!" But in reality most of your spells are fast casting and if you don't recast those dots as soon as they become available you will be loosing out on proc damage and will end up not having any spells available to cast, plus constantly staring at your spells window to see if the dot has ended or not.

Each time you cast you may notice a pause inbetween casts. There is actually a .5s pause between casts which normally is added to the CastingTime of each spell.

Let us assume at this moment that we do not care how much power we will use during the fight. This leaves us with cast time, recast time and a combination of those two which I previously called Overal Time Effeciency(or OTE) which formula looks like:

Damage
-------------------------------- = OTE
(CastingTime + .5) * RecastTime


For a conjuror, for short encounters of 23 seconds or less, Time Potency creates a lot of damage, but as the fight drags on the OveralTimeEfficiency will win. Mainly because the rate at which the quick casting, recasting spells become available over the slow casting long recast spells damage which end up being fill-ins during a lengthy fight. As a side note I have actually tried OTE on other characters that I play such as a Necro and Warlock, but for those TimePotency was the way to go.

Casting Time and Recast Time Modifiers are farely easy. Simply add up the amount of cast time reducing points or percentage you have then times it by the original cast or recast time of the spell. this will result in the amount of reduction you will receive to the spell. If you minus this reduction from the original amount of the spell you should then receive the final Cast or Recast Time.

Let's say the cast time of my spell is 2s. I have 13 of cast time modifiers. That's actually 13% of cast time modification. I will times 2*.13 which will result in .26 I take the original cast time 2.0 and minus the resulting time of my modifiers .26 which results in 1.74, the final Cast time of the spell.

Yet now I want to find out the cast time would be with Allegro, which is 7.5 modifier. I add 13+7.5 which is 20.5. I take the Cast Time of the spell 2*.205 which is .41 I then minus it from 2.0 - .41 = 1.59 the final result if I have a bard in my group.



Calculating Damage:
The next consideration then for a spell is damage. Damage is how much the spell will do total at that instant or for its duration (either completed out or cut short by the end of the fight.) Obviously if you have just a few seconds left you do not want to cast a dot, unless it's the fastest casting item and you are not exactly sure how much time is left in the fight.

Casting spells quickly (as long as the cast time is not faster then .5s) leads to procs and procs leads to more damage for each spell cast which is where most of the conjurors real damage will come from. Cast fast and keep casting. This leads to another technique of not wasting time. Do waste ANY time waiting for a spell to become available. If you're best spell is available in .05 seconds and all you have left is the worst of the best spells to cast, then cast that spell and be late casting the awsome spell that was up for 1 second while you casted the not so great spell. So consideration should be taken for the recast time of a spell and what you can fill in that time before it should be recasted again.

On each spell there is a minimum damage and maximum damage. In order to calculate the spells damage I used to take the average of the two, but with spell crit easily brought to 50 or more, it makes more sense to just go off maximum damage, since everytime you crit you are at least guaranteed the maximum amount of the spell.

1) Base Damage Calculation
2) Spell Tier Multipliers
3) Attribute Modifiers
4) Base Damage Multipliers
5) +Spell Amount
6) Crit Multiplier


1) Base Damage Calculation: I'm understanding this as the % increase to the spell due to Intelligence. A curve which I do not have the formula for, yet.

2) Spell Tier Multipliers: % increase due to the level of the spell.

3) Attribute Modifiers: % increase due to your the amount of Disruption you have. Note: Subjugation does not increase spell dmg amount.

4) Base Damage Multipliers: % increase due to the amount of base damage you have obtained.

With all of your gear on you should see the first 4 items automatically applied. You can simply take this number from your spells and then apply the next two modifiers.

5) +Spell Amount: An added amount of damage up to 50% of the spell's amount totalled at number 4. If the spell is a(n):
dot = Only the first tick receives this amount.
AOE = The amount is divided by 1/3 and applied across all mobs.
AOE+dot = ? (I assume a combo of the two above?)

6) Critical multiplier: The (% Crit Multiplier * .369 * Damage Amount) plus the Damage Amount

<< 7)Adding a normalized form of proc damage to spell dmg total>>



Results:
At first I put my formula in a spread sheet and did the calcs, but then a few questions started to rise up that the spread sheet could not answer such as:
How much damage will this said time formula do against the other?
Will the spell order change or formula change if I change gear or gain a certain buff?
Which formula is better for what length of time?
Which formula casts more spells for the said length of time? (more spells is more chance to proc)
If I am not wearing either peice of gear for a slot and put one on how will it really compare to another and will anything above change?

And for that I created a java application which when my lazyness subsides I'll create a front-end to. But at this moment it applies all the above and compares formulas for a specified time and an average damage per formula for each second up to that time. Which is how I will generate reports for the below items.


<<to be added: Results of the formulas including: >>
<List of Spells in order of pregnancy for each formula. >
<Amount of damage for durations of 10, 20s and 40s>
<Amount of spells casted for said duration>
<Power used for said duration for spells casted>
<Multiple mobs vs Single Mobs>


Damage Order http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/p...opic_id=436155
Suggestions/Comments/Flames tell to Unrest.Aditya

Fixed .05s to .5s

Last edited by Farzaque; 06-18-2009 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 09-22-2007, 06:36 PM  
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Default Re: Spell Formulas

I dont understand this ................
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:27 PM  
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Default Re: Spell Formulas

This basically says through mathmatics that you should cast these spells if they are available over the next spell in the list...

So if Snapping Mandibles is up, you should cast that above all other spells.

Next, if Fiery Annhilation is up, cast that before all other spells besides Snapping mandibles.

Then from top to bottom cast each spell if it's available before you cast a spell that is below it.

Frigid Winds
Deluge
SeismicTremor
ShatteredTerrain
Horde of Bats
Calcify
MasterStrike
BTS
SoulSieve


So some of you may notice that it doesn't include Swarm Pets, but you'll have to take your calculations from act and stick them in the formulas for that...

Last edited by Farzaque; 01-20-2009 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 09-22-2007, 08:21 PM  
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Default Re: Spell Formulas

Very cool.

Which is worse.

The fact that you went to the time to come up with this or the fact that I think it is cool?
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Old 09-22-2007, 11:15 PM  
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Default Re: Spell Formulas

No doubt, I quickly built a java app and it states that if i don't care about how much power I spend for maximum damage potential my spell order should be the following:

FW, FA, Shattered Terrain, BTS, MS, SM, Seismic Tremor, Horde of Bats, Calcify, Deluge

I really won't be able to check it out until Monday when I raid.
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:08 AM  
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Default Re: Spell Formulas

Does this take into account the fact that stuff like FA can be recast long before the DoT component ticks out?
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Old 09-25-2007, 08:14 PM  
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Default Re: Spell Formulas

If you would like to calculate on your own the damage that FA does during 8 seconds compared to 12 (w/5 aa points in it) be my guest.

But if you want to get the most you should calculate YOUR order, depending upon your gear, your aa, your raid group setup, and definately take into consideration the amount of power that you'll be spending if you don't have the proc gear to support it.

Like most people won't put 5 points in FW, but if you have the extra power to do so and the right raid group setup it is the most damaging spell (not taking into account swarm pets) for the time spent clicking it.


Remember that what's being determined here is the weight of casting one spell over/or before another in the sequence of your chain casting. For how much time it takes to cast compared to the amount of average damage potential.

This weight will change if you have no procs like syn or aria, if you do have syn and/or aria, if pom/frigid gifts is active, etc.

My current order is for no procs and i've memorized which spells contain less weight w/the more procs I incurr. Which strangely enough with +600 to damage SM shifts up to 3rd position from 6th... Many of the 1 second spells shift higher in weight w/the more procs.
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Old 10-04-2007, 01:45 PM  
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Default Re: Spell Formulas UPDATED

**This information has been compressed into first post**

Last edited by Farzaque; 01-21-2009 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:21 PM  
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Default Re: Spell Formulas

i no longer play my conj but reading throught all that and thinking back to my spell order its solid and helpful to new conjs this post should get stickyed
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Old 10-11-2007, 05:21 PM  
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Default Re: Spell Formulas

My old guild leader and I talked about setting up a hotbar based off of spell formulas but I suck at math and we didn't have the ACT data at the time lol. I'm surprised not to see this earlier and I completely agree with Alvbryn.

Maybe even consolidate Farzaque's post with the spell casting order and maybe even hotbar setup? for a one stop shopping place for a sticky.
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