Xalmat

I disagree.

Compare the DPS of the Mythical pet With, and Without, Plane Shift (and for shits and giggles with and without the 30% base damage bonus too).

Without Plane Shift:


Tack on with Plane Shift, but without the base damage bonus from 4 set.



Now I know what you're thinking, "But Xalmat, the DPS is at least twice as high!" Well yes, that's partially because of the crits, but it's also because Plane Shift boosts the pet's casting speed too. The average damage going from an average 38% crit to 100% crit only went up from 1564.57 to 2135.98...a 36% boost. If you took away the casting speed bonus of Plane Shift, that would translate to an overall DPS boost from 1868.80 dps to 2541.57 DPS on the training dummy.

Even tacking on the base damage bonus doesn't overwhelmingly boost the pet's damage output:

Average damage goes up from 2135.98 to 2514.33, or 17%...which is about on par considering it's going from 20% base damage to 50% base damage. And again if you take away the casting speed bonus of Plane Shift, it would mean the pet goes from doing 2541.57 DPS (as figured) to 2973.64 DPS.

Most classes can sneeze and do more DPS than that.

That's hardly overpowering.

For the record my pet sits at 23% spell haste, 44% spell reuse, 25% spell crit in the persona window with an 830 spell mod. It has more reuse and casting haste than I do, but not the crit (but then again Conjurors don't seek out spell haste to begin with).

What would be overpowering is if we had shared +Spell Damage with our pet, and I completely agree that it is something that should not be shared, and we should explicitly seek out separately.

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No amount of class adjustments will ever cure bad player syndrome.

agressiv

Keep in mind summoners are leechers by nature and can leach 2x all the group buffs - Precise Note, Dissonant Note, and Peace of Mind. Nobody can get as much dps from those buffs as summoners.

Those are already probably in your top 5 on your parses, with the pet at 100% base damage, 30%+ re-use and 100% crit, you'll be off the charts by far.

You can't compare training dummy stuff. Summoners absolutely suck without buffs from other classes. They cant debuff worth shit either.

agressiv

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Xalmat

Fair enough. And I would expect that to be nerfed in the future if we had shared stats with our pet.
The training dummy is useful for getting a baseline, since you can't repeat situations perfectly in groups every time.

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No amount of class adjustments will ever cure bad player syndrome.

Ryuujin

It wouldn't put us off the charts. It would put us back to where we were in T7 - on par with Sorcs DPS wise (in raids), without the utility to match. The added procs have always been a part of pet DPS that lets us keep pace with other classes. Scaling up the proc damage is a part of fixing pet DPS.

Perhaps, but I suspect that most pets are sitting at a higher +damage amount than Summoners already, and sharing the stat with the Summoner would limit their +damage amount, since we don't have a huge cap. (This is assuming they ditch Power Flux, etc. if we can browbeat them into going to a shared stat system.)

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Sciomar

Well of course all the pet mods would have to be removed from gear, we're not trying to become op. And if shared stats went into the game there would need to be some tweaks to dps that we'd be fine with. If stats aren't shared then they need to start placing pet mods on every mage useable item that drops in game because we're still sorely lacking.

Fact: the pet has always been 28-33% of a summoner's dps
Fact: the pet can die much easier than a player can and dump any hate onto the summoner
Fact: when RoK came out the pet scaling got screwed up and they stopped pulling their weight
Fact: being extensions of the summoner they should have always shared stats to some degree

If you're only going off parses from a few choice fights then sure the summoner might look overpowering, so try looking at the overall parse of the zone.

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Char

Diknak ,

I showed you the math couple pages back.....feel free to show me some math that shows a summoner gaining more from a % based effect than a wiz if it also transfers to their pet.

non sharing stats is the main cause of the summoner issue....pet gear is the stupidest idea ever....its full of bugs the item Dev doesnt even have a clue how to fix....and in no way addresses the unlying problem.

which is.....summoners gain less than other mages for every piece of gear with a % effect on it. The more mages put on...the further the gap is....

Where is the pet gear that fixes the loss to a summoner from 30-40% of his output not being affected by the choker?...where is the gear that fixes the loss from 30-40% of his output not being affected by the Anashti belt?...if you want to compare my pet to auto attack...then were are the mods that increase my pets output like haste/dps/DA does to melee auto

They need to change to shared stats and IF there are issues...make adjustments then....but as long as pet gear is in here they cant do that.

While im venting...... A summoner needs to put 8 AA into KoS Str and 5 AA into TSO to net less crit gain than a wiz gets from just 8 AA in KoS....and that 5 AA in TSO for them is used for a further dmg gain.

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Sciomar

The even bigger issue is being the KoS AA's themselves. Wizards get 100% of any AA they get there whereas we don't. Strength line goes to summoners and everything else save the joke of a wisdom line goes to a specific pet only.

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Odeon

I read somewhere recently, possibly wire, that our swarm pets are going to be turned into a spell, which debuffs a mobs "spell damage".
Rogues were also mentioned to be receiving a melee version.

Perhaps it was just worded badly, but debuffing a mobs spell damage would be very different to debuffing it's magic resists.. and may have some real use I guess?

Obviously these changes are a long way off, and anything could happen. Will all depends on how well it fits in with new content/raid mobs. They gained the ability to crit this expansion, perhaps next time around they'll have +spell damage too, and summoners are the tool to counter that, where crit mit was the tool this expansion.

The same notes I read also mentioned that enchanters and bards are to have their buffs made raidewide, and spells like Time Compression will affect 4 targets, 1 per group.. if this comes into play, it'll definitely change the way we set up our raids, and probably open up more slots for dps(with debuffs) classes.

Oh and yeah, mythicals will have a new use.. appearance slot ;)

Xalmat

We will become the magic debuffer class, along with Necromancers. And they're nerfing Brigands ability to debuff magical resists, turning them into physical debuffers only, and giving some of their debuffs to Swashbucklers as well.

Swarm pets are slated to become Debuffs with a DD component, and no longer swarm pets.

The bit about enchanters and bards is true.

And Mythicals will have a use at 90, they just won't be the weapons of choice at 90.

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No amount of class adjustments will ever cure bad player syndrome.

Char

good point...with them supposedly making the scout pet king of single target....are we expect to call back to GH to spec scout on trash...then call back to GH again to spec mage for an AE fight?

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