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  1. #1
    THE Conjy aniathor's Avatar
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    Default GU 66 - The Aftermath

    First and foremost, I am actually enjoying all of the changes made to the class, as well as learning to adapt to each encounter. I think that the concept of this change was fantastic, but it does need some fine tuning.

    I have to admit, this change ultimately separates the men from the boys, because playing a conjuror @ full potential is not as easy as it once was. If you are too dense to realize why, don't bother continuing to read. The only reason I say this is because I can already hear the trolls chiming in with, wow you guys have 3 more spells to cast, nothing changed.... but oh how wrong they are!

    All trolling aside, I am making this post with the intention of submitting organized feedback for changes, or tweaks rather, that would make the class more enjoyable. I am not recommending outrageous changes here, like double the dumbfire duration / dmg or pets being able to proc again, but there are some problems. I will point out a few:
    • Dumbfires are uncontrollable still. Yes, it is harder to notice this because their duration is so short, but I have seen communion pets and aqueous swarm run around and aimlessly attack anything they want in an encounter. We should be able to controll them and they should be immune to taunts after they have been cast.
    • The dumbfire should remain up for the duration of the spell, not be dispelled once the target you cast it on dies. For example, if I cast roaring flames on an encounter and the target I cast it on dies in 1 second, the dumbfire will also only last 1 second. I realize that this is how DoT spells work, but what separates dumbfires from simply a DoT spell? Nothing? Considering that dumbfires can die, they should not be dispelled once the target they are cast on is dead. Especially roaring flames.
    • The amount of temping a conjuror has to do now, along with getting all of their dumbfires off, is completely ridiculous. I realize that this disadvantage is in place for a reason, but one thing that could make it slightly more reasonable, ESPECIALLY with how movement oriented new content is, would be to allow us to cast dumbfires on the run. We can cast our normal pets on the run, why not our temp pets? I really don't see this change as being over powered in any way, it would just simply make life easier.
    • Ok, so yeah we went from benefiting the most from grp dmg procs to benefiting the least of all the mages. One thing that many people do not know is that the act of casting the dumbfire on a mob will proc a dmg proc, because the spell is classified as single target hostile spell, but the dumbfire will not. I think that the spells should be classified in line with the dumbfire they produce. I.E. Roaring flames should be a "blue" spell, and be able to hit 8 targets with proc dmg, just once. I mean the pet can hit up to 8 targets, the spell should also be classified as AE. Communion should be green. Aqueous swarm should stay red.
    • I think our pet stances need more attention. I mean why are we even considerin usingg lvl 14 gm2 spells? and why is the aa in our shadow tree that enhances the offensive stance still 100% useless?
    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: GU 66 - The Aftermath

    i think all of the above are reasonable requests, except pet spells inheriting green/blue AE of the dumb. it opens a can of balancing worms they'll never agree to take on ('cause they have to re-evaluate all classes in that case) and including it on the list would make the entire thing less credible as a result. other changes are small nice-to-haves, but i don't see them doing another "quality of life" pass for at least another year tbh

  3. #3
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    Default Re: GU 66 - The Aftermath

    Non summoner.. and I haven't discussed this with the mages I know, but nevertheless interested..

    Do you really need or want explicit control over dumbfires? Or would perhaps more refined rules of engagement be just as satisfying, considering you then wouldn't have to deal with micro-managing them while managing the standard pet, temps, and everything else that might be going on? Perhaps being able to re-arrange their priorities would be more ideal than explicit control over individual specific targets.

    As far as temps, I would like to see 'true' spell triggers for all classes. Something along the lines of up to three spells per trigger-set, with the primary advantage of using a trigger set being zero recovery between activation of any skill in the set, regardless of your own buffed recovery or the ability's normal minimal recovery. At worst, recovery would be deferred until the trigger completes. Casting speed and all other stats would be applied, however.

    Any skills in the set would be treated not as separate abilities, but as a unit task. One consequence of this that any component within the trigger would not trigger side-effects until the entire trigger completes (on heal, on crit, on hit, on whatever). While in the process of completion or while queued, any /cancel_spellcast or /cl would cancel the whole trigger. None of the component abilities would 'fire' until the entire trigger completed. The trigger itself could be included in a macro if you wanted to surround it with alerts or other commands besides the inner skills.

    It would be nice, but probably not reasonable to hope for an allowance of a customized condition that could automatically trigger it, even though that's how I most often see spell triggers described.
    Last edited by Wanyen; 05-17-2013 at 09:59 AM.

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    Default Re: GU 66 - The Aftermath

    dumbs should just respond to the same pet attack/back off commands that normal pets do. problem solved
    altho in that case i guess we'll have to stop calling them dumbs. /conundrum

  5. #5
    THE Conjy aniathor's Avatar
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    Default Re: GU 66 - The Aftermath

    One potential idea that covers two of my points would be to make the dumbfires attack anything that the "type" of spell hit. For example, if roaring flames was a blue with a 15m range, anything that the blue hit (up to 8 targets) the dumbfire would continue to attack once your first target was dead, for the duration of the dumbfire. Communion anything linked in the encounter (if considered green) they would continue to attack, aqueous swarms can remain attacking the same target you cast it on.

    I'm not sure which would be easier to code: full control, or whatever one would want to call my proposed method, but let's be real here, if it's unreasonable to implement, as far as ease of mechanically working correctly, it won't happen.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: GU 66 - The Aftermath

    Give them a short, specific, consumable memory of sorts?

    Again, because I don't know how it works specifically, I am struggling, and may misunderstand, but would that be in same vein as the shaman 'Ritual' or bard Rhythmic Overture/Intermission abilities?

    1. Cast imprint recording skill
    2. Cast whatever damage type, recording mobs hit on the imprint
    3. Cast less dumb pets
    4. Less dumb pets attack whatever was recorded as a hit on the imprint, expiring by time or by emptying of imprint (meaning all the mobs hit with the imprint are dead)

  7. #7
    THE Conjy aniathor's Avatar
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    Default Re: GU 66 - The Aftermath

    Doesn't even have to be that complex.

    Imagine if Roaring flames was a blue, which could hit up to 8 targets like the pet, that did no dmg (other than abilities it proc'd for being a hostile spell) but also summoned the pet for it's normal duration which attacked everything that the blue hit, once/if it's first target dies.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: GU 66 - The Aftermath

    I agree with you on a couple points:
    -- dumbfires should not be dispelled as soon as the mob we cast it on dies.
    -- dumbfires should obey the same pet commands that we use for our main pet.
    -- temps suck - would love to cast those spells as well as dumbfires on the run.

  9. #9
    Go away Shesaz's Avatar
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    Default Re: GU 66 - The Aftermath

    Roaring Flames summons one Flame to AOE mobs.

    Maybe Roaring Flames should be an AOE itself that summons multiple Flames so each can single-target-attack its own mob. BAM SOLVED

  10. #10
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    Default Re: GU 66 - The Aftermath

    I think it is starting to come together for me. You would like to see it as a divide and conquer concept. You want to change the spell target type and as a consequence unstack them a bit so they are swarming but not necessarily cooperatively swarming the same mob:

    -Roaring Flames as targeted AE where each hit within some radius gets one less-dumb on it,
    -Communion as an encounter which gets one less-dumb regardless of how many mobs are in the linked encounter (just like any other encounter spell),
    -Aqueous Storm remaining as single target that gets the full battalion of minions, just as it currently is.


    1. Cast whatever less-dumb pet as a 'debuff' instead of casting the pet itself. The 'debuff' consists of an instant expire detrimental that does the actual summoning on the mob it hits based on target type of the debuff, but regardless of what was actually targeted.
    2. Each less-dumb solo minion (or stack if Aqueos Storm) works over their 'assigned' target till the original summoner croak's, the less-dumb runs out of steam and naturally expires due to time, or the mob they were summoned from and have been whooping on croaks, whichever occurs first.
    3. If the mob they were working over expires before the other conditions, perform 'teamwork' and converge on the other remaining targets.

    I kinda suspect that some middle step, like being an instant expire detrimental, might be necessary in order to establish attribution/ownership, individual lifetimes, and individual relative position if they are to work somewhat independently, but I don't know. Thanks for being patient.

    Should they necessarily team up with the same batch they were summoned from, or would closest less-dumb regardless of owner and time of summons be adequate?
    Last edited by Wanyen; 05-18-2013 at 11:56 PM.

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