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  1. #1
    Orz
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    Default Defensive Haven Lvl14 or Antagonize

    So which one are you guys using atm?

    Is there a straight forward winner? Or is one better in some cases etc?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Defensive Haven Lvl14 or Antagonize

    I think there's a bit of a question on which to use, but many are still using GM 14 defensive haven.

  3. #3
    THE Conjy aniathor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defensive Haven Lvl14 or Antagonize

    I think overall Antagonize is better when you take into consideration the loss of the additional hate gain. On paper, Dstance will parse better on a shorter fight, but a 7.2% potency increase effects all of the pet's abilities/spells, whereas the HP only effects soulburn.

    This does not change the fact that I am interested in seeing what others are doing, and am all ears if someone can support their point with facts.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Defensive Haven Lvl14 or Antagonize

    Gunna bump this back up. What exactly determines the hit of soulburn? On a dummy (no planeshift or grouped characters) it always seems to vary a bit. Switching to d-stance doesnt really seem to make all that big of an effect on soulburn either. I know its directly tied to pet health, but that isnt to say pet health +16.5% = 16.5% more damage out of Soulburn (because its not showing up that way.)

  5. #5
    Swizzle Stick
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    Default Re: Defensive Haven Lvl14 or Antagonize

    Quote Originally Posted by Anunnaki View Post
    Gunna bump this back up. What exactly determines the hit of soulburn? On a dummy (no planeshift or grouped characters) it always seems to vary a bit. Switching to d-stance doesnt really seem to make all that big of an effect on soulburn either. I know its directly tied to pet health, but that isnt to say pet health +16.5% = 16.5% more damage out of Soulburn (because its not showing up that way.)
    Debuffs on the mob will be the main difference. Anything changing the mob's mitigations will increase/decrease the damage of Soulburn and since those debuffs are pretty much constantly in flux, that's why Soulburn's damage bounces up and down a lot.

    Beyond that, Soulburn damage is static. You can test that yourself on dummies. Defensive Haven boosts my Soulburn by a couple 100k (~1.8 to 2.1) on dummies, but my gear isn't great at the moment.

  6. #6
    THE Conjy aniathor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defensive Haven Lvl14 or Antagonize

    % hp gains increase the value of # HP buffs, and stamina buffs, but not other % hp buffs. It's not a flat out 16.5% increase because you spec for the 10% in summoner tree, and 5% in shaddows, and it doesn't modify HP that is already effected by a % gain.

    14 gm2 d stance is much more powerful in a raid setting, and worth it imo
    Last edited by aniathor; 01-19-2014 at 05:38 PM.

  7. #7
    THE Conjy aniathor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defensive Haven Lvl14 or Antagonize

    Also, please try not to necro posts 6 months old. I'll let this one slide because still somewhat relevant, but it's pretty confusing to see me say that antagonize is my choice, and then 3 posts later say dstance. There was a pretty big lapse in time there and a mechanic change. Just make a new thread next time.
    Last edited by aniathor; 01-19-2014 at 05:38 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Defensive Haven Lvl14 or Antagonize

    Sorry, it was the 2nd thread down, most forums I'm on prefer to bump old threads in favor of multiple threads of the same topic, especially when its right there.
    Last edited by Anunnaki; 01-19-2014 at 07:10 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Defensive Haven Lvl14 or Antagonize

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylke View Post
    Beyond that, Soulburn damage is static. You can test that yourself on dummies. Defensive Haven boosts my Soulburn by a couple 100k (~1.8 to 2.1) on dummies, but my gear isn't great at the moment.
    So I just tested it and its not exactly static. Did it on a dummy in the GH. Did 3 tests (just heroic dummies, enough to take the full hit, but not have to sit on the thing forever) for both O-stance and D-Stance.

    With O-Stance they were:

    3,843,139
    3,851,856
    3,290,801
    AVG:
    3,661,932

    So two were close, but the third was way off.

    With lvl 14 D-Stance:

    3,834,862
    4,369,826
    4,369,826
    AVG:
    4,191,505

    So the last two were identical, but the first one was way off.

    If you take the averages of the 3 tests, there is a 14.46% increase by changing to D-Stance. So there is definitely some sort of mechanic that changes the hit of SB and makes it vary by some degree.

    I also understand that in a raid (or even group) setting, these number mean little. I'm just curious on the mechanic that determines the hit.

    It seems to me like in a raid setting this would be ideal, however in heroic zones I'll continue to use O-Stance since most PUG tanks have a hard time with hate as it is.

  10. #10
    THE Conjy aniathor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defensive Haven Lvl14 or Antagonize

    Quote Originally Posted by Anunnaki View Post

    It seems to me like in a raid setting this would be ideal, however in heroic zones I'll continue to use O-Stance since most PUG tanks have a hard time with hate as it is.
    That's what I would recommend.

    The only reason the number may change is because crit bonus does still effect soulburn, maybe something was procing? and also any fluctuation in debuffs that your pet casts.

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