Heal crit or dog line - Page 2

razieh · 01-28-2009, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynnea

And then there is the fact that often I find I am sending the dog in as a sacrificial lamb to pull something. When that happens the group looses all its benefits anyways.

Problem #1 Make the templar use their hammer why should you sacrifice your wolf?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynnea

Of course the other factor which may be odd to some is that we only run 2 healers in the MT group primarily. Our MT is a paladin and we just don't need a third unless it is a tougher fight. So my own focus is how good I can heal and how fast I can get them out.
If I were not MT Defiler though I would deffinetely run it and probably loose coagulate. And I still may switch down the road once we get into avatars and some nicer gear.

This seems kind of backwards, we use two healers and run a bruiser main tank.... So I don't get your point really. Coagulate is nice yes but hardly useful when you compare the two.

Lynnea · 01-28-2009, 06:37 AM

I hadn't thought of the hammer... I forget sometimes they have it. Sometimes with some temps it is like pulling teeth to get them to use it.
"Just use the dog its already up"

But that does bring up another question. Does the group ward encompass the dog and potentially loose some of its effectiveness if an AE hits protecting the dog that has immunity?

razieh · 01-28-2009, 06:52 AM

The group ward works like elemental wards. Places a single target ward for XXXX on each member in the group.

Sanizy · 01-28-2009, 10:14 AM

I do agree with one thing you said...without getting the full dogline and extra tso aa's he is no where near as productive. I went full on dog line 4 4 6 8 1 (iirc) as well as litany of combat 5 and the 25% to health and 500dmg proc aa in tso line.

As far as surviability he has lived through everything in palace through Tythus, mad crusaider through xenbok, and the first slime guy in inner stronghold with 0 hps inc to him (havnt been further than those so not sure how he does after). On named fights he puts out around 120-150 hps and 400-600dps, while protecting about every other or every 3rd ae. I dont like to count trash numbers because the tank simply doesnt need to be healed as much so its impossible for him to have good zonewide numbers.

For the sake of argument, assume 2000hps on a named fight and thats around +-7%.

About the only time I dog pull is on trash in various zones and when pulling trash I mine as well just cast him again at the start of the fight because my wards will still be up anyways. I could see how he would not be as useful if you were pet pulling several named.

Problem with coagulate is that I hardly ever see it used. Either the tank dies straight up without purpling or he lives. A question about coagulate if anyone knows, when a person purples do they loose their mitigation / avoidence check?

ecoskii · 01-28-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynnea

I hadn't thought of the hammer... I forget sometimes they have it. Sometimes with some temps it is like pulling teeth to get them to use it.
"Just use the dog its already up"

But that does bring up another question. Does the group ward encompass the dog and potentially loose some of its effectiveness if an AE hits protecting the dog that has immunity?

If the dog draws direct aggro and it is in group ward range it will use the group ward - but won't if you have sent him miles to pull a mob. If the dog gets hit by a frontal i guess it will also use up the group ward. If the dog gets hit by a normal ae it doesn't use the grp ward

razieh - just in case anyone mis-reads your post - the dog 'group' ward works like hateshield and is an individual ward on each member, the normal shammy group ward is a collective ward used by anyone taking damage - statement of bleeding obvious but...

Glaviot · 01-28-2009, 12:04 PM

Ancient pedigree is a 257-429 proc, not 500.
Litany of combat is suspended in heal stance.
I can't remember 1 time where the very low ward dog provide could have saved the MT (and for others in group, coagulate is better, and curing faster is better too).
The AE avoid is good but far too unreliable, rare, and low range.
22+2 AA for the str line, 5 for litany, 1 for ancient pedigree = 30 AA

I hate this stupid dog =)

Sanizy · 01-28-2009, 12:46 PM

You only have to drop coagulate...you can keep fast cures.

My bad about the exact proc, not logged on atm.

Good to know about litany I didnt realize that will have to check it out when I log in.

I have only tested the dog on a couple raids in the forementioned zones/mobs and have previously run heal crit instead. That being said, I see a larger benefit from the dog than the 15.8(?) heal crit and 1100 purple health that I previously had.

Glaviot · 01-28-2009, 12:55 PM

To be honest, i see no real benefit in any of them, but i like to sometimes know that this uncouscious coercer or templar is alive because of me.
But yes, it is more of "what is less crappy" instead of "what could help me and makes a difference" for me.
Only real good line is wisdom.

Arcanemundi · 01-29-2009, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glaviot

Only real good line is wisdom.

I agree most of the wisdom line is absolutely necessary to a shaman, but Coagulation is also a huge health buff for the group. Unless your one of those healers that 'says' you never ever let anyone in your group get that low (or die.) lol whatever

razieh · 01-29-2009, 03:54 AM

If some one in the tank group is dying AND they aren't getting one shotted. There is far more important things that need to change than getting coagulate. To clarify even further Look at it this way how often does your group go unconscious and that 1k extra unconscious WOULD HAVE SAVED THEM. I'm willing to bet its less than four times(referring to this expansions content) Now with that in mind compare that vs the chance to out right avoid an AoE, chance to proc a ward on everyone in group and some haste + an interrupt.

How is it even a remote competition?