Begone you lousy pet! - Page 4

Promise · 05-25-2007, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ipum

i dont speak for razieh, but i can say ive tried every line in both KoS and EoF aa's, and in KoS for a MT defiler, you just cant sacrifice the dog, you say your dog dies alot, i say you arent using him right, i can go a whole avatar fight or contested mayong and not have a problem with it, it never dies, cause i time my in's and outs, it isnt hard at all, and your sacrificing something that assists you in keeping the MT alive, for something does does next to nothing on a raid, fast cures? i can cure everything before it ever has a chance to tick as is, i dont need assistance with that, infective bites has some merit, but not if you dont have the dog line, and the unconcious hp buff is completly usesless on a mt, and your picking up all this useless stuff at the cost of group haste, ward procs and ae immunity, granted ae immunity hardly ever goes off when its needed, the ward procs alone make up for it

But you see this is the point I getting at. You have to pull the dog in and out a lot. Each time you send him in he then has a "chance" to proc this shit. So realistically just how often do you think the group ward and the group immune actually proc's? Say on Mayong or Woushi, I'm willing to bet maybe 1 or 2 times on the immune and not sure on the group ward (as this one does proc fairly often). 1 or 2 times on the immune for the quick cures and crit heals and ritual. I've thought it out, and yes I have been using him right. I've dealt with the sending him in and out constantly, I've put him up so he'd be hitting the back of the raid mob, I've done all of that. I'll also have to wave the BS flag about how you can "cure everything before it ticks once". Or your using a 3rd party program to mess with your refresh timers. Sure not having quick cures we can still cure the MT of everything, but what about the other people. What about on the Woushi where multiple people get popped with the arcane? You can cure all of them before 1 tick? I think not. What about Mayong and the random charm? Your telling me you can cure that charm off the MT in less than a second? If you can then your not doing anything else like warding or debuffing.

I'm still testing this line out still, haven't decided for myself if this is indeed a valid route to go. If all you can do is come on here and say things like I'm not using the dog right then just keep it to yourself. I know how to use the dog and I was using him right. Doesn't change the fact that you have to send him in and out to keep him alive and all it takes for you to loose EVERY benefit he brings to the table is for someone to pull aggro at the wrong time and kill him. But anyways I keep repeating myself on this, only time will tell if this is a good spec or not.

razieh · 05-25-2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promise

But you see this is the point I getting at. You have to pull the dog in and out a lot. Each time you send him in he then has a "chance" to proc this shit. So realistically just how often do you think the group ward and the group immune actually proc's? Say on Mayong or Woushi, I'm willing to bet maybe 1 or 2 times on the immune and not sure on the group ward (as this one does proc fairly often). 1 or 2 times on the immune for the quick cures and crit heals and ritual. I've thought it out, and yes I have been using him right. I've dealt with the sending him in and out constantly, I've put him up so he'd be hitting the back of the raid mob, I've done all of that. I'll also have to wave the BS flag about how you can "cure everything before it ticks once". Or your using a 3rd party program to mess with your refresh timers. Sure not having quick cures we can still cure the MT of everything, but what about the other people. What about on the Woushi where multiple people get popped with the arcane? You can cure all of them before 1 tick? I think not. What about Mayong and the random charm? Your telling me you can cure that charm off the MT in less than a second? If you can then your not doing anything else like warding or debuffing.

I'm still testing this line out still, haven't decided for myself if this is indeed a valid route to go. If all you can do is come on here and say things like I'm not using the dog right then just keep it to yourself. I know how to use the dog and I was using him right. Doesn't change the fact that you have to send him in and out to keep him alive and all it takes for you to loose EVERY benefit he brings to the table is for someone to pull aggro at the wrong time and kill him. But anyways I keep repeating myself on this, only time will tell if this is a good spec or not.

I play with casting animations on its really easy to notice when the mob is starting to cast something, when I get the message mist rises from the floor so on and so on I throw out a cure arcane its not very hard. Especially in EoF most effects are group or raid wide so one cure cures the group I could name countless spells that are this way. Cureing is not an issue everyone in the group should be trying to do it, aka some one will (or at least should get it).

Please you keep saying now OMG I GIVE UP STR LINE AND NOW I CAN GO AGI STA WIS, you can go str agi wis ive posted that spec as a very good one countless times. Basically you are saying that you will give up the dog and everything in str line for sta...?

Ipum · 05-25-2007, 03:38 PM

/cancel_spellcast
/usea Cure Arcane
yes i can cure the charm on the mt almost as soon as it hits, k
and you benefit heal cirts? i take heal crits and the dog, you dont "gain" heal crits by sac'ing the dog, you gain the sta line abilities, which all suck

razieh · 05-25-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ipum

and you benefit heal cirts? i take heal crits and the dog, you dont "gain" heal crits by sac'ing the dog, you gain the sta line abilities, which all suck

BUT BUT BUT YOU GET RITUAL TOO IF YOU GIVE UP THE DOG!!! I want to see promises reply i have brought this up now two ? three times now seriously do you put all 50 points into str line which would be a feat on its own.

Kyrsten · 05-25-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promise

But you see this is the point I getting at. You have to pull the dog in and out a lot. Each time you send him in he then has a "chance" to proc this shit. So realistically just how often do you think the group ward and the group immune actually proc's? Say on Mayong or Woushi, I'm willing to bet maybe 1 or 2 times on the immune and not sure on the group ward (as this one does proc fairly often). 1 or 2 times on the immune for the quick cures and crit heals and ritual. I've thought it out, and yes I have been using him right. I've dealt with the sending him in and out constantly, I've put him up so he'd be hitting the back of the raid mob, I've done all of that.

I don't have much experience as a defiler in EoF raid zones, but I know that in KoS, I'm had my dog heal for about 40-50k zonewide while only dying a couple of times, if at all. My dog was named differently just to track the heals, because I didn't think he was worth the hassle, but after runs in Labs and LoA I changed my mind and can't see myself speccing to anything different.

In heroic instances, the group aoe immunity procs rather often... I'm assuming the same in raids, but I don't have time to watch the spell effects window that closely to see how much the icon is up.

How soon are you sending your pet in? I tend to wait a few seconds for the mob to get positioned and a few debuffs to make it in before sending mine in. My dog does sometimes get aggro on the pull from any leftover ward that's up, but I work around it by waiting and staying back from where the tank is pulling to.

Claria · 05-30-2007, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promise

Indeed, though only the last reason could of used a bit more explanation on. First 2 is pretty straight forward and there's not much I can do to help you understand them if you don't. The last 1 basically what I was getting at is if you claim to do EoF content and that you always have your pet engage and it's always alive then in all likely hood you resummon it often.

Let's take Woushi for example, if you have your pet engaged the entire time and it doesn't die at one point during the fight I'd be shocked. I feel it's safe to say that the only way you could keep your pet from dieing is sending it in and out a lot. When you send your pet in, all the wards/immunities etc run off a percentage to go off. This percentage happens only on a successful attack. When you pull your pet out then any of the effects that triggered while the pet was in is still happening but your pet isn't generating any new effect's. Situations like this is why I was inquiring on a "pet-less" spec. I'd rather have AA abilities I get to use 100% of the time vs AA abilities I'd use 90% (very generous figure here). Then you have to consider that the "90%" of the time AA abilities still have to have the dog successfully attacking the mob and the different percentage's actually triggering.

I've actually took the plunge and respecced out of the dog (/cheer!) to give this some serious testing. Unfortunately I've only been able to test it in a few zones and not against any of the "hard" mobs. So far I'm thrilled with it, and the feedback I've been getting from the other MT healers seems I'm at least partially right in my assumption that my healing potential would be the same (if not better) while I'd be able to quick cure/dps a bit more. Not positive by any means that this is at least on par with the pet, will have to do more testing before I decide if this is the spec I want to keep.

I pretty much was talking about the one part that you said that could have used more explanation. But, again.... if someone says thrie pet is always alive... then they DO NOT resummon it, because there is no reason to resummon a living pet. They would only resummon it if the pet dies a lot and is not alive a lot. As for fights like Wuoshi, my pet doesnt die much, I know where we are pulling to, I know where he will be positioned, so I position the dog likewise so he wont attack from a bad angle.

On top of that, the abilities you say you're getting, I do not think are better than the proc rate of the dog. Does the ward and AE immune proc a lot? Sometimes. There have been fights where we missed every AE just by being lucky with the dog proccing. As an example, I know its an easy fight, but Prince in EH, I was waiting to cure Furious Storm the entire fight when we got stunned with Voice, and I never got to use it because the dog blocked it. Does it happen often that it procs when you need it, not always, but when you're already prepared for AEs and it procs and saves one, its kinda a nice surprise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promise

Ya Raz I hear what your saying, I'm giving up a chance at group ward, AE avoid and haste(unless dog dies during encounter) for crit heals (100% of the time), increased DPS and quick cures (100% of the time). From what I've seen this week quick cures help a lot in a wide range of situations, crit heals > dog's group ward 100 fold and my DPS has improved a nice chunk. This all started with me beginning to wonder just how often the group AE immunity lands, coupled with the fact if the dog dies you loose it all. I'm not convinced that this AA spec is worth sticking with for high-end raiding but my initial tests looked promising. You ever try anything like this Raz or have you always been pet-specced?

Well, I disagree with you here. You can not get your crit heals up to 100%, you cant even come close. I do agree that maxing crit heals is a good thing, but you dont have to sacrifice the dog to do it. I also dont think the fast casting cures are really worth it either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ipum

/cancel_spellcast
/usea Cure Arcane
yes i can cure the charm on the mt almost as soon as it hits, k
and you benefit heal cirts? i take heal crits and the dog, you dont "gain" heal crits by sac'ing the dog, you gain the sta line abilities, which all suck

Not a bad idea, but I actually took it one step further. I made 5 differnet macros, the same as yours, just with targets (using the new macro system) or if you use the old one, with /useabilityonplayer, so I have the entire MT group covered. My reasons for this are twofold. First off, I always target through the mob, so, I don't want to worry about Wuoshi's deagro putting him to someone else and having to change targets back to the MT to cure him. Secondly, for an instance where the other 2 healers are "treed" I want to get them cured ASAP, and, even though my UI allows clicking the effect on a player to cure, that would require ESC or jumping to interrupt my spellcast, while my macros allow me to instantly interrupt and cure without worrying about changing targets or interrupting a spell on my own. Is it easy to do, sure, but I just find my way even easier

.

razieh · 05-30-2007, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claria

I pretty much was talking about the one part that you said that could have used more explanation. But, again.... if someone says thrie pet is always alive... then they DO NOT resummon it, because there is no reason to resummon a living pet. They would only resummon it if the pet dies a lot and is not alive a lot. As for fights like Wuoshi, my pet doesnt die much, I know where we are pulling to, I know where he will be positioned, so I position the dog likewise so he wont attack from a bad angle.

Ya the pet rarely dies, promise said before that mobs like mayong its hard to keep alive. even on contested mayong the pet rarely dies!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claria

Well, I disagree with you here. You can not get your crit heals up to 100%, you cant even come close. I do agree that maxing crit heals is a good thing, but you dont have to sacrifice the dog to do it. I also dont think the fast casting cures are really worth it either.

Promise was saying 100% of the time they will get heal crits, not 100% heal crits

Either way I brought this up countless times and they just ignored the fact, what AA spec were they where they got heal crits and ritual and could not have the dog basically they just got fast cures from give up the dog ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claria

Not a bad idea, but I actually took it one step further. I made 5 differnet macros, the same as yours, just with targets (using the new macro system) or if you use the old one, with /useabilityonplayer, so I have the entire MT group covered. My reasons for this are twofold. First off, I always target through the mob, so, I don't want to worry about Wuoshi's deagro putting him to someone else and having to change targets back to the MT to cure him. Secondly, for an instance where the other 2 healers are "treed" I want to get them cured ASAP, and, even though my UI allows clicking the effect on a player to cure, that would require ESC or jumping to interrupt my spellcast, while my macros allow me to instantly interrupt and cure without worrying about changing targets or interrupting a spell on my own. Is it easy to do, sure, but I just find my way even easier

.

Call me old fashion, but I just queue up cure arcane while I target them then hit my cancel cast hot key

Ipum · 05-30-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claria

Not a bad idea, but I actually took it one step further. I made 5 differnet macros, the same as yours, just with targets (using the new macro system) or if you use the old one, with /useabilityonplayer, so I have the entire MT group covered. My reasons for this are twofold. First off, I always target through the mob, so, I don't want to worry about Wuoshi's deagro putting him to someone else and having to change targets back to the MT to cure him. Secondly, for an instance where the other 2 healers are "treed" I want to get them cured ASAP, and, even though my UI allows clicking the effect on a player to cure, that would require ESC or jumping to interrupt my spellcast, while my macros allow me to instantly interrupt and cure without worrying about changing targets or interrupting a spell on my own. Is it easy to do, sure, but I just find my way even easier

.

/shrug, i always used the macro i had and f1-f6