The Good and the Great

Lindar Phamoncry · 03-07-2008, 03:55 PM

In the general vent discussions that normally occur in vent while doing dungeon crawls last night we started discussing a few of the other Dirges on our server. When one in particular was mentioned one of our more knowledgeable players said something along the lines of "Man... not trying to compare you and him or anything, but damn that dirge is so good! Its crazy how much less damage I take when I am grouping with them!"

Not that it bothered me or anything, I've always considered myself a B+ Dirge anyways(ie: that I know at least that I am not a suck ass Dirge). It did however get me thinking... when casting all group debuffs, running Harl's/PoS/Elusion, and not being lazy... spamming all debuff attacks and such... could there really be that much of a difference between Dirges who lets just imply have very similar spell qualities?

I kinda came to the conclusion that the difference in damage reducing debuffs really wouldn't be all that great... so the only difference would really come down to DPS as long as neither lacked a serious amount of common sense when it came down to buffs being run or gear used?

So what would you consider the difference to be between the B+ and the A+ Dirge?

Ajeco · 03-07-2008, 04:08 PM

I hope you didn't include Gravitas, because you think it's a given, cause if you don't... well...

Anyhow!

As long as he (whoever he is) doesn't go under yellow consistently, it's better to run offensive buffs (bar PoS) then defensive. The faster the mob is burnt down, the less damage the he (whoever he is) will take, that's a given. :D Maybe that's your anwser? :P

After debuffs/buffs (which includes Gravitas), dirges have little impact on the damage the tank takes outside their own DPS and the very little heal, as has been said, the faster the mob dies, the less damage the tank will take.

In the end gear will also have a place in the equation.

Lindar Phamoncry · 03-07-2008, 04:41 PM

I suppose... it doesnt really change the question much but to give a few specifics Its a Bruiser that was tanking VoES, and I was running Tombs/Rianna's/Bria's/Boon/PoS, especially with his dps... that of the swashy, and that of the necro pet, I was surely going for the dps for the same reason as you stated... and was cycling grav between the fury/Necro/Bruiser/Myself(not necesarily in that order)

really as far as answering my question I think the closest you got was this:

Quote:

After debuffs/buffs (which includes Gravitas), dirges have little impact on the damage the tank takes outside their own DPS and the very little heal

My answer to what would seperate a B+ and an A+ Dirge is simply dps, I suppose thats the assumption that I am trying to validate

Ajeco · 03-07-2008, 04:51 PM

Have to ask, are we assuming that he was running the same group?

Oh! Oh! And since it's heroic content, do you check for stun/daze icons on the mob and cast cheap shot/daze scream thingy accordingly?

I usually didn't cast those in the end cause the heroic mobs died so fast it just wasn't worth it with just about any group that was made off Second Dawn members :P And I didn't do groups outside of guild that often.

Those 2 kinda slipped from my mind :P

Lindar Phamoncry · 03-07-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajeco

Have to ask, are we assuming that he was running the same group?

chances are no(I didnt ask, wasnt trying to sound all defensive about it)... but the bruiser/necro/fury most likey could have been the same, one of our late night PST groups so its usually got alot of the same members

I took it as one of those generalized statements

Quote:

Oh! Oh! And since it's heroic content, do you check for stun/daze icons on the mob and cast cheap shot/daze scream thingy accordingly?

Thats one of the kickers I guess... especially when its a tank thats suceptable to high spike damage, I am usually spamming every stun/interupt/daze/damage debuff I can think of(save the blue back which isnt on my hotbars) to try to help out. Though while I do try to time my cheap shot for mob spell animations, my focus is usually more on my hotbars than the mobs effects box. This is precisley the thing that I am trying to figure out... as I can see how that could make a difference. Usually I am trying to squeeze every bit of dps that I can out of my toon.

Ajeco · 03-07-2008, 05:20 PM

With bruiser and swashy having so many stuns and dazes and whatnots, it's hard to just spam and hope stuff's used efficiently. Most people unload their stuns and whatnots at the beginning of the fight, so daze the mob a bit after and keep Shriek Blade running.

My 0.02 euros.

EDIT: If the bruiser isn't having huge problems taking damage, you can forgoe casting the daze and go for something more damaging.

Ajeco · 03-07-2008, 06:08 PM

To add (I come up with stuff in bits and pieces :P) if you're finding yourself searching your hotbars too much, you prolly need to reevaluate your hotbar settings, especially if you're a clicker and not a button masher.

The hotbar should have skills arranged in a sensible and accessible manner, so that when you need a skill, you instantly know where it's at and not search for it. Myself I kept tweaking my hotbars constantly to make it "right" for me.
Since I deleted everything EQ2 related, I don't have any screenies left to show you how my hotbars were set up (since I mostly raided, some skills like the daze thingy were put to the side since most of the time I has skills up that were worth casting over it).

Lindar Phamoncry · 03-11-2008, 01:12 PM

While I always appreciate input, kinda steered away from the point of the thread lol, which was more to confirm/destroy my assumption that the difference between a good and a great dirge was mostly "just" dps. oh well hehe

After more than 4 years of this being my only serious toon though, no snottiness intended but I'm more than comfortable with my hotbar organization, To get my dps up to par I have been procrastinating completely reorganizing them to break some of my old habits, though the ProfitUI spell countdown has been pretty helpful as of late to get me more consistent

Since my mindset has always been that support>dps however, its been hard lately changing over from things like daze to prevent damage in lieu of more dps (though I am more than understanding that a dead mob does no damage)

Kall · 03-11-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lindar Phamoncry

While I always appreciate input, kinda steered away from the point of the thread lol, which was more to confirm/destroy my assumption that the difference between a good and a great dirge was mostly "just" dps.

This is pretty much true, sadly. A well placed daze can be pretty crucial in certain situations, but getting Shriek Blade on the mob early is the most important for preventing damage. It should also be noted that it should be a high priority anyway for outputting max DPS.

Lindar Phamoncry · 03-12-2008, 10:43 AM

Exactly what I was looking for, thank you Kall