Casting Order Help - Page 12

Gosta Dirk · 04-14-2009, 07:15 AM

Your prolly right, and I guess I would prolly not copy it wither, rather use it as a pointer, but I guess the old post is just as good for that

Thanks anyways

Orani · 04-14-2009, 10:39 AM

Yeah, folk seem to have their own approach. I suppose one thing to get out of all of this is to do the big damage dots somewhere in the beginning. Much of our CA/spell dmg comes from our 3 dots and, thinking offhand here, I think they have like a 15 duration or something to get the full dmg benefit from the dots. Since I run with a good crew, many of my encounters avg around 30sec so I do the dots near, or at, the beginning to make sure I get their full benefit.

All the 12Tone Stone earing changes is doing the Grim Strike very first thing or not since the earing can determine a better pairing of CAs/spells between autoattacks.

Oizen · 05-18-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by durgeurge

Cool thanks guys for the tips guys. My gear so far isn't to bad, most of it is on the Loot gear list. I know i need some replacements.

Still are u guys using the Casting Order to achieve the high parse numbers or making it up as you go? Not sure why im so low but i do follow the exact order and its still crappy.

I will pick up some of the missing gear spots and grab a STR ring and see if it improves at all.

Just discouraging to see low numbers when you follow a proven method. Probably my gear or missing a few Auto Attacks but i am careful to watch when i swing and time attacks. :-)

Moving into VP and i need more dps lol. Suxdirge ftl.

Thanks again

I know this is necrotic and durgeurge has long since figured this out (hopefully) but, after beating the shit out of something in the vicinity of a hundred dummies, and swapping around bags of ROK & TSO fabled (a few legendary oddities), I'd like to share my findings while tuning up my dirge to be my main raiding toon.

First off: To make sure you don't miss a swing (if your UI doesn't have it embedded already) go load up Rhaz's AutoAttack Bar.

This advice from Pimp is worth a bump...

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerPimpMaster

If your not trying time your autoattacks perfectly between combat arts, and your using mismatched delay weapons your failing right from the start. Dirge autoattacks are the metronome for our entire dps output.
In almost every possible scenario an auto attack is gonna do more dps than any combat art or spell you could possibly press.
With this said i find it most common that people push back or delay their autoattacks by chain casting. What i mean is, you only have a certain amount of time before the mob is going to die, in that time you MUST get as many auto attacks off as possible. The timer is ticking as the mobs health is dropping; if it's time for an auto attack and your in the middle of a cast the auto attack waits till the cast is over to trigger and THEN starts to cool down for the next trigger. The farther you delay and push back your auto attacks the less total your dps output will be.
The basic idea is to just autoattack the mob and in between each auto attack add 1 or 2 combat arts/spells. Besides the chain that we're all familiar with, it's almost always gonna hurt you to push more than 2 buttons per auto attack. (depending on weapon delay and haste mod, i'm spoiled with gear so your results may vary)
I recommend using ACT with the previously mentioned plug-in to get a feel for your autoattack timing. I've come to realize that alot of players out there who play dirge would benefit in dps from just autoattacking without trying to push buttons, especially if your coming from a background of playing button mashing classes. As with everything else, you need a starting point, and plain auto attacking is as good a place to start as any. Once you've got your auto attacks timed you can add from there. It's alot easier than working it the other way around.

Above all remember your auto attacks are ~70% of your output no matter what your gear is. I can equip the best raid gear with Myth and Marrows or full instance gear or full MC gear: across the board my auto attack stays around 70% of my output.

Mileage may vary on ~70% melee(slashing+piercing) but, it will be somewhere around there if you're doing it right, even with wild proc gear.

Double Attack is where it's at. Get as much as you can. Then get more. Your top priority is DAing every swing and swinging as many times as you can in a fight. Turn on the ACT bell for DA with the ACT DA Mod. Now you know how many DAs you are getting in each group.

If your bell is ringing every swing then you can swap out some DA gear with Melee Crit gear until you miss some bells. Increasing MC is your second highest priority.

Other than buffs/debuffs, no matter how efficient you are, the other crap on your hotbars is third on your list of important stuff to focus on when tuning dirge DPS.

I'd say durgeurge's first step should be to grind AAs for the bottom shadows line. You can do all the gear upgrades you want but, until you get a DA with every swing and raise MC you're just not going to get much bang for your buck. For this toon Tier 2+ Shard Armor would be an obvious upgrade, starting with shoulders.

Vlix_Oasis · 05-18-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oizen

Mileage may vary on ~70% melee(slashing+piercing) but, it will be somewhere around there if you're doing it right, even with wild proc gear.

I have to think if your autoattacks are making up 70% of your total damage then something is off. I could be wrong but I have never seen that # even if I time perfectly.

Ultimaomega · 05-18-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlix_Oasis

I have to think if your autoattacks are making up 70% of your total damage then something is off. I could be wrong but I have never seen that # even if I time perfectly.

Should be closer to 55-60%

Oizen · 05-18-2009, 10:56 PM

Yea I was going to say between 55-70% is a good place to be but, if you're trying to get the most out of your toon your weapons are packing heat with DA and MC. Melee is often above 60 on my best parses so, I figured that dude was just uberer than me with a pimp offhand getting his 70%s.

Firecracker · 05-22-2009, 06:50 AM

Nice post Oizen. One of the better explanations I've read on timing autoattacks.

I also liked the line "Dirge autoattacks are the metronome for our entire dps output." Heh, we see what you did there KillerPimpMaster... very cool =)

Orani · 05-22-2009, 10:44 AM

Wow!! lol. Welp, WHEN WITH A MYSTIC AND mythical ILLY (i got ia), my DA jumps around 85% on average (occasionally staying at 98% to 110% or so for a period). MC just at a mere ~70% MC; grr, i need some better jewelry.

The highest percent of my parse from autoattack I have seen is 57% (on yellow con mobs). According to ACT, the total amount of autoattack delay averages at 3.2s zonewide; so with a 2.4s weapon delay, then I am probably missing out on around 12k dmg zonewide.

So I seriously wonder ... How the hell ya get your total autoattack dmg on parse to be up above 60% (on yellow con mobs or higher)? must have some freak'n awesome TSO items. Also, what is your zonewide autoattack delay that is given from ACT?

Yeah, I use the ACT beeps as a casting metronome. I remember the casting time of all my stuffs with a ~37% cast speed buff. When casting/recovery is buffed higher, pretty easy to know how everything changes. With ~37% cast speed buff and 3.1s weapon delay, able to hit 2x 1.1s casts and 1x .9s cast or 3x .9s casts. Of course, all of this depends on lag as well so I pay attention to my internet latency as well (thru the graph shown from pushing f11).

If there is very little lag, 2.6s weapon delay, 45% casting buff, then I cast 1.7s ca/spell and a .9s ca/spell. If there is noticeable lag, 2.6s weapon delay, 45% casting buff, then probably cast only 1x 1.7s ca/spell depending on the lag severity. It all goes hand in hand.

Very curious about this. Sure, from proc dmg plus autoattack dmg, then I can see how ya can say ya got up to 70%. But, 70% from just autoattack alone, then this is bloody crazy and I want the items you have. LOL!!

Ugh, fighting with a ~3.6s weapon delay in instances sucks!!! lol

Regarding what to cast and stuffs. Seems like working well for me with stuff in regular instances. Since my encounter durations last avg 30s (lowest 14s on some). I just cast 2 of our 3 big dmg dots at the very beginning while the mob's health is still at green (which is just for like 4s or so). Then, just direct damage stuff until mobs health is in the red. Then, just autoattack the last 5% mob health. With mob encounters, since these die so fast, I just autoattack. lol. Of course, while doing all this, maintain timing autoattacks. With raid trash, I don't cast any dots when the mobs health is in, or about to be, in the red if the encounter durations are around 40s. Of course, all this depends on what your encounter durations are like so gotta be versatile.

Ramathorne · 05-22-2009, 12:12 PM

Orani, What is your DPS mod in that grp, if you have a Mystic and Illi I am assuming it is quite low. Make sure you have your dps adorns and maybe look into either using dps stones on your weapons or the Srt ring. This might help bring your auto attack up a bit.

Orani · 05-22-2009, 09:08 PM

Well, I just glance at that mod to see whether my str ring is worth the dps mod or not. When i'm in instance groups and I am noticing my dps mod hiting 180 and much higher (with right group build), then I exchange the str ring for a 2%SC/3%MC ring. When i'm raiding i'm always in the MT group, so I always gotta have the STR ring on. The only adornment i'm aware of with dps mod I can use is the neck (think it is). I got the sig drum so I can't use the dps thrown weapon adornment.

I will pay better attention to my dps mod now since ya mention it. Thanks

I realize that 150 dps mod is the soft cap and 200 is the hard cap. Will there be a huge difference between being above the hard cap and a 180 dps mod?