Argyuile

By the time you finish casting it the encounter is already halfway dead.

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BubbaCajun

Id like to see the spell get shortened. 8seconds is too long. If the heal was only 3seconds long no one would care about the stifle just increase the heal amount to match the new time.

Vuetee

isn't it now PoS?

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Vuetee, 80 Dirge, 400 Tinkerer, Myth, 6xT4, 200AA
Valdoartus, 80 Assassin, Myth, 3xT4, 175AA
Faemous, 80 Wizard, Myth, 2xT4, 160AA
Only a fool takes offense where it was not intended
Guess who I bumped into on the way to the opticians? (Everyone!)

Gosta Dirk

Now it is yes

Vuetee

Aren't most of the problems listed here solved now btw?

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Vuetee, 80 Dirge, 400 Tinkerer, Myth, 6xT4, 200AA
Valdoartus, 80 Assassin, Myth, 3xT4, 175AA
Faemous, 80 Wizard, Myth, 2xT4, 160AA
Only a fool takes offense where it was not intended
Guess who I bumped into on the way to the opticians? (Everyone!)

Kall

Which ones listed are actually solved?

The only reason why most of the problems on the front page aren't being discussed is because they're masked by the strength of the mythical proc.

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Retired from EQ2.

Playing DotA on US East (Kallp).

Orani

In regards to DPS, basically, that is exactly right. I wouldn't want to see Intrepid Strike duration be reduced from 12s to 8s or lower just to "balance" the fixes here; In whatever way SoE views "balance" to be implemented, I have no idea.

At this point with the changes, much of these changes now come across to me as cosmetic instead of "needed". I figure all classes would like to have some cosmetic changes like this to some extent. Sure, I would not mind seeing some of them implemented. However, still interesting to read the perspectives of the changes to be desired.

Regarding BC, meh, there are other classes that have buffs like this as well that are unable to be cast upon themself like TC with Illies since the recovery and recast buff, or some variation, would be very nice on the Illy.

I do agree with Disease Mastery in how it is screwy in how it does not apply to all diseased base spells like it says it should do. I agree that our single heal could have been implemented better, confront fear should have some passive upgrades, and that our rezes should have better passive upgrades.

Due to our Mythical alone, Dirges do well enough DPS. Our utility ability should be buffed much more than our damage abilities; heh, groups get me for the utility (i.e., raid chimes, rezing, BC, PoS, other buffs to melee) much more than asking "hey, can you parse 8k+?" before sending the invite. Getting a Bard that can parse high is just a very nice suprise jumping out of the cake that arouses ya.

What is the deal about passive upgrades being bad? I guess think we don't have enough buttons to click; I suppose having 5 or 10 additional hotkeys to click along with my current 40 hotkeys would be fun /sigh. 40 are a total of my cas/spells plus all sorts of other optional charm item classed casts; heck, i don't even have cheapshot and fear spell hotkeyed.

Meh, those are my thoughts on all of this at this point now.

Kall

EQ2 never got utility even close to right. It should matter who and when you cast your buffs and they should be powerful enough to tilt a fight in or against your favor. Now obviously 1 utility spell shouldn't be powerful enough to do such a thing on a raid fight, but on heroic content it definitely should and it should offer dynamic benefits. Now to make utility fun, it should all have dual effects where you, the caster, gain some sort of benefit as well to encourage buffing. Also, the casting times on utility spells should be short and non-intrusive because waiting 2s to cast CoB is pretty ridiculous, too.

Back before all these scripts where if 1 person fails, the entire raid wipes and DPS went through the roof, it was commonplace for Bards to be boxed because the difference between boxing one and not was like 500 DPS which was like 1-2% of your raid DPS.

Right now, Gravitas offers little benefit and has a static order, Jester's is another static rotation, and CoB and PotM are pretty much always up so they might as well be passive and debuffs are just a joke.

Read the thread "What Makes a Good Dirge?" if you don't think this is the case where multiple high end Dirges, including me, pretty much say the only thing any guild at the top end gives a shit about is DPS, not active utility or debuffing. The same argument can be applied to Enchanters and raid crowd control, another complete fail.

Instead of this, EQ2 keeps you occupied by giving you a bunch of medium to low damage abilities to spam to maximize your class's potential which really doesn't even matter because auto attacking, which is passive, is still doing like 40-60% of your DPS.

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Retired from EQ2.

Playing DotA on US East (Kallp).

Orani

Banshee has a ~1.7s (for me) cast time, Bump+Scream ~1.7s (for me), other medium damage is around 1.1s (for me) except for Evasive Maneuvers (.9s for me). A 2s cast time for Chimes sounds about right since, with all the benefits in addition to the damage proc, it adds noticeable dps to parse. After considering the other casts and all of the benefits of Chimes, 2s casting for Chimes is not bad at all. Xpak going to be interesting how Bard's utility is further expanded.

That sounds like Bards are already quite powerful utility when placed correctly. If now this was done, I bet the bard would being parsing ~20~30% lower (depending on particular utility casts), which is significant enough once the Bard starts parse 7k+.

Well, it's not always active especially when the player does not pay attention or get bound up with control effects. I think another example of how powerful one utiliy spell has become since a goal of having it up constantly is a requirement in good raids.

So what's the deal here, I read this all the time, how would ya really like to see Bards parse? Since high end bards, from what I have read, already is hiting around ~12k at least; think offhand, I am sure I have seen some highend Dirges hit 18k. I agree it should be up there at least where Enchanters stand.

Really, sounds like utility and debuffing is so passé, or irrelevant, by the time a crew is rated "high end" or maybe the utility and debuffing should be even more noticeably "high end". It'd be interesting to see how noticeably lower a "high end" fella's parse becomes when without any class synergy (i.e., debuffs & utility). I think a fella needs the "high end" mentallity to have this view of utility and debuffing being almost irrelevant as it currently stands.

Yeah, definitely with Bards, medium to low damage abilities are just fillers but without the fillers ya will be parsing lower by ~2k or more. I figured a fella that views DPS highly would have seen this.

Sounds like I must play another game that better implements utility/debuffing so that I can better understand how it should become in the future. Got a name of a game in mind?

Vond

Orani: EQ1 used to get it way better atleast, pulling was an art and CC was important etc. No idea if that's still the case in EQ1 these days though.

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