The Dirge's Guide to...Success I suppose - Page 17

rukkis · 10-28-2009, 01:30 PM

Did you just say that an SK doesn't have much snap agro???

Edit: and DPS???

Vuetee · 10-29-2009, 09:01 PM

/failmode.

/sigh... searle didn't return the hi5 ;'( lol

Searle · 10-30-2009, 09:02 AM

/HIGHFIVE VUETEE! WOOO WOOO!

Tumor73 · 10-30-2009, 12:49 PM

@Searle
Your second post at least pointed out some faults, which I definetly could agree with. You are correct in some of your statements, and I will admit when I am wrong.

You are correct about the Shadow AA line parry buff, and I did not take lvls cap in to effect vs marginal returns against a higher lvl mob.

But in the end, most of your statement are just meant to bully, and prove your superiority. With my statement directed at Salty, all I was trying to get accross was that there are still Dirges who still try to fulfill both roles.

@Vuetee
While on your Ass you probably had a hate transfer on the tank, and a SK and Paly are still the highest parsing tanks compared to a similarly geared Guard or Zerk. In addition SKs have some of the best tools at yanking and holding agro in Grave Sacrament, Death Chimes, and their myth.

From experience agro is not an issue in a high parsing caster group of a Troub, Conjurer, Warlock, Wiz, and healer with a SK or Paly tanking. But in the same group a comparable Zerk or Guard will have to depend on their DPS a lot more to hold on to agro. Not saying it cant be done, but DPS and skill now play a major role.

Orani · 10-31-2009, 02:28 PM

Ugh, just skimmed the posts.

Dirges should ask their tanks about their parry stat in-raid environment before AA buffing the +parry in our Parry song. With the typical MT group setup, and depending on guardian's gear, the raid equipped Gaurdian I roll with can easily hit up to 600 parry. With diminishing returns against a lvl88 raid mob, the cap is around 570. When parry skill too much higher than this, then parry starts cutting into the tank's other avoidance/mitigation. GU29 is the latest change to stats/avoidance/mitigation rules that I have found. For my situation, I think the AA buff to the combat skill buff might be the only good one for the tanks when they're in defensive stance.

Same with the DPS mod. Once DPS mod gets up to around 190, then diminishing returns, starting at 180, makes it pointless to go much higher to the cap of 200 if ya do not have your MC or DA near cap. Depending on group setup, maintaining 175 to 190 DPS mod is easy to accomplish without the AA buff to our Riana song.

Also, once ya start getting a few pieces of T4 Shard armor and all the T3 shard armor and some good jewelry, the AA buff to our AGi/STR song is pointless.

I don't know what this talk is about Guardians having it tough. The Guardian friend I roll with in-raid zonewides average 9k with high-end of 12k as the Main Tank role and depending on group setup. I haven't seen a Crusader or Zerker snap aggro back as fast compared to my Guardian friend; this friend only has 4 TSO tier4 pieces. Then again, there is barely a handful of really good Crusaders/Zerkers that I play with in-game.

Depending on if ya gotta travel to rez due to knockbacks, a Dirge can easily maintain a high parse whil rezing and gravitasing. Still tho, our parse is highly dependent on group setups.

Actually, ya can cast 5 Gravitas before immunity is expired on the first cast. With our Sig Drum and depending on your recast speed, in a 4-cast rotation, the 1-cast immunity is still up for a few seconds after the 4th-gravitas cast.

Maintain that in-game focus, coordinate your rezes between autoattacks, and don't look down at parsing well. A dirge does not have to sacrifice rezing to parse well.

Sheesh, man up Dirges. Get better at coordinating your crap and pairing casts between autoattacks, and stop slacking. Ugh, good Dirges are too hard to come by. I just don't know what it is ... maybe it's tougher than what I think.

salty21_db · 10-31-2009, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orani

Ugh, just skimmed the posts.

Dirges should ask their tanks about their parry stat in-raid environment before AA buffing the +parry in our Parry song. With the typical MT group setup, and depending on guardian's gear, the raid equipped Gaurdian I roll with can easily hit up to 600 parry. With diminishing returns against a lvl88 raid mob, the cap is around 570. When parry skill too much higher than this, then parry starts cutting into the tank's other avoidance/mitigation. GU29 is the latest change to stats/avoidance/mitigation rules that I have found. For my situation, I think the AA buff to the combat skill buff might be the only good one for the tanks when they're in defensive stance.

Same with the DPS mod. Once DPS mod gets up to around 190, then diminishing returns, starting at 180, makes it pointless to go much higher to the cap of 200 if ya do not have your MC or DA near cap. Depending on group setup, maintaining 175 to 190 DPS mod is easy to accomplish without the AA buff to our Riana song.

Also, once ya start getting a few pieces of T4 Shard armor and all the T3 shard armor and some good jewelry, the AA buff to our AGi/STR song is pointless.

I don't know what this talk is about Guardians having it tough. The Guardian friend I roll with in-raid zonewides average 9k with high-end of 12k as the Main Tank role and depending on group setup. I haven't seen a Crusader or Zerker snap aggro back as fast compared to my Guardian friend; this friend only has 4 TSO tier4 pieces. Then again, there is barely a handful of really good Crusaders/Zerkers that I play with in-game.

Depending on if ya gotta travel to rez due to knockbacks, a Dirge can easily maintain a high parse whil rezing and gravitasing. Still tho, our parse is highly dependent on group setups.

Actually, ya can cast 5 Gravitas before immunity is expired on the first cast. With our Sig Drum and depending on your recast speed, in a 4-cast rotation, the 1-cast immunity is still up for a few seconds after the 4th-gravitas cast.

Maintain that in-game focus, coordinate your rezes between autoattacks, and don't look down at parsing well. A dirge does not have to sacrifice rezing to parse well.

Sheesh, man up Dirges. Get better at coordinating your crap and pairing casts between autoattacks, and stop slacking. Ugh, good Dirges are too hard to come by. I just don't know what it is ... maybe it's tougher than what I think.

I'm thoroughly confused in my post where i stated a dirge "couldn't" parse. I merely stated more along the lines of that it was their top priority over being a utility to help others.

As for the person who posted right after me (name escapes me). I have to agree with the other posters as you didn't really add much helpful info to what i posted. I fully understand that a dirge CAN add a parse to help get the raid up mine, as i just stated above, was directed at the dirges who parse and that's it.

I can see a cap problem in the higher tiers of raiding and i agree with that. My guild atm however is stuck on switchmaster and are in maybe two pieces of t4 or so if that. So the need to spec and assist the tank and scouts comes into play. But for some reason alot of tards just look at the top dirge on server and go "ZOMG I HAVE TO SPEC LIKE HIM CUZ IT MUST BE RIGHT FER ME" when he is in a different situation then they are and they cant seem to comprehend that.

Orani · 11-01-2009, 12:46 PM

Whether my post is helpful is in the eye of the beholder. Salty, I was not responding to you in particular; I was responding to all the posts that I skimmed and I did mention I just skimmed the posts. Meh ...

Switchmaster is quite close to having parry cap issues depending on if your tank is mindful at get'n good loot outside of official raids such as thru instances and loot right purchases.

Fella, ya should be asking them instead of just assuming here. From reading how ya write, I bet ya don't know where your Rogue/Predator combat skills and dps mod and tank's parry skill reside with our songs.

I agree, never good to follow a cookie cutter outline just due to a fella's high parse. There are too many variables involved with damage parses, but it does give an indication of skill to an extent.

Vuetee · 11-04-2009, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Searle

/HIGHFIVE VUETEE! WOOO WOOO!

:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tumor73

@Searle...
But in the end, most of your statement are just meant ... prove your superiority.

And? :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orani

Dirges should ask their tanks about their parry stat in-raid environment before AA buffing the +parry in our Parry song.

I agree, isn't this the main source of this arguement? Just ask your tank. BUT, if you're an off-tank dirge (especially if an alt is having to fill in a tank spot for a specific mob), then you are likely to benefit from having AA's in your +parry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salty21_db

I'm thoroughly confused in my post where i stated a dirge "couldn't" parse. I merely stated more along the lines of that it was their top priority over being a utility to help others.

Then you need to rethink a little. Our main DPS comes from autoattack, so unless your healers are crap and staying out of range of gravitas (i think it's the same range as heal range anyways), or you need to go res someone on mynzak who didn't joust the AE, you should be able to get autoattacks out inbetween your utility spells.

In a FULLY Utility (gay-assed) spec you should be able to push at least 3k just from autoattack, if you're stuck on switchmaster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salty21_db

As for the person who posted right after me (name escapes me). I have to agree with the other posters as you didn't really add much helpful info to what i posted.

Tumor, and too damn right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salty21_db

I can see a cap problem in the higher tiers of raiding and i agree with that. My guild atm however is stuck on switchmaster and are in maybe two pieces of t4 or so if that. So the need to spec and assist the tank and scouts comes into play. But for some reason alot of tards just look at the top dirge on server and go "ZOMG I HAVE TO SPEC LIKE HIM CUZ IT MUST BE RIGHT FER ME" when he is in a different situation then they are and they cant seem to comprehend that.

That's why we say ASK

It does no harm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rukkis

Did you just say that an SK doesn't have much snap agro???

Edit: and DPS???

nope, Basically a SK has a good aggro hold. On my assassin, i outparse him constantly (and on my dirge).

Now, if im parsing 3 times his parse, then that means about 60% extra 'damage based' hate goes to him if I have my xfer on him. So from damage, I'm still getting a 3:2 ratio on damage hate.(ass:SK)

And then his hate brings it to at least 3:3 to retain it. But I'm parsing 4-5 times his parse, so the aggro must be the main component, rather than the damage.

Say I parse 5 times his parse, that means 5:1, after the xfer it's 4:2, so to keep it level he has to do more taunted hate than damage induced hate to stay on top.

SK do have a lot of PROCCED hate though (completely different to damage hate). And a lot of snaps. Would it ease your mind if I said I had my xfer on him too?

.

Orani · 11-04-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vuetee

I agree, isn't this the main source of this arguement? Just ask your tank. BUT, if you're an off-tank dirge (especially if an alt is having to fill in a tank spot for a specific mob), then you are likely to benefit from having AA's in your +parry.

Yep, just ask the tank.

If ya know for a fact that ya gonna get a "meh" OT that ya know about their parry be'n low etc, then go for it. Otherwise, meh, I think probably wasting the AA points since the AA buffed skills won't be utilized well due to the skill/stat/avoidance rules.

Tutimin · 11-05-2009, 11:53 AM

the only points you should be putting into your parry song is the +mit in shadow tree, the one that adds extra parry in the KoS Tree and Shadow tree are not worth it no matter what group yer in