Dibbis

QFE tut, and always put the 5 in the +mit. very helpful on some mobs, especially with the squishys

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Vuetee

Aye, also nothing better to spend it in newayz need at least 10 points in that tree and everything's crap (unless you PvP, then stun is useful)

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Vuetee, 80 Dirge, 400 Tinkerer, Myth, 6xT4, 200AA
Valdoartus, 80 Assassin, Myth, 3xT4, 175AA
Faemous, 80 Wizard, Myth, 2xT4, 160AA
Only a fool takes offense where it was not intended
Guess who I bumped into on the way to the opticians? (Everyone!)

Orani

If ya really think this is true and the tanks parry skill hovers at ~540~550 .... then ya are sacrificing tank's survivability against a lvl86+ raid mob for a slight increase in personal DPS. For a lvl86 raid mob, the avoidance skill cap is 559, and for a lvl88 raid mob, the cap is 572. stat/avoidance rules further explained in GU29; most recent info regarding the rules I have found at the moment. That's the way I understood it ... I appreciate being proven wrong when it's pointed out, but I think this is right and is what my gaurdian raider friend tells me.

boli

It is also contested avoidance, which honestly works out about 10% of your actual avoidance; and that only occurs once the mob is debuffed. Yes, not putting the points into parry will reduce the MTs survibility; however that reduction is about 0.01% or so.

Better the mob dies sooner from a dirges higher dps than try to improve the tanks survibility that way; the stoneskin gives more outright avoidance than any amount of of parry you give the tank.

Note: this is only for RAID mobs... instance mobs are a different story.. but they are a joke anyways.

Vuetee

QFE

This is, however, provided your dirge doesn't just use /autoattack and /follow :P. (the /follow comes in handy on the palace trash after tythus :P).

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Vuetee, 80 Dirge, 400 Tinkerer, Myth, 6xT4, 200AA
Valdoartus, 80 Assassin, Myth, 3xT4, 175AA
Faemous, 80 Wizard, Myth, 2xT4, 160AA
Only a fool takes offense where it was not intended
Guess who I bumped into on the way to the opticians? (Everyone!)

Orani

I don't see why it would depend on raid or one group instance mobs, sounds more appropriate that it would depend on the character's gear/lvl vs mob's level/ability.

How ya come to figure?

From what I have read, the parry skill improves parry check beginning from 5% base parry chance. This check is applied against the mob's level and offensive ability.

However, Stoneskin is a completely seperate variable and proc of itself.

Poison Concoction proc (from Bard Agi line) gives only approximately 1% in a 7k~9k parse. In higher parse this proc is irrelevant. However, lower the parse, more likely Poison Concoction will only become 400 dps at its high point. Intoxicating Notes about the same Poison Concoction except only very slightly better; in higher parses tho, it is irrilevant. Abled to be verified thru ACT parses and the stickied parse thread. I wonder if the TSO AA buff to Shrieking Cry or Flanking Chorus, the AA buff alone, if it would even get close to equal to 1% of the parse damage.

Seriously, if raid encounters are determined by the Dirge doing this little amount of extra DPS of ~400dps, then sounds like the raid encounter's success is more of a matter concerning luck. Parry doesn't add to mitigating the damage, it has a check chance to avoid the damage; of course, all dependent upon the character's lvl/parry skill vs mob lvl/ability.

boli

Yes parry adds a chance to avoid an attack. this is contested avoidance so it is checked vs the mobs level/slashing ability and a roll to determine if you avoid said attack is made with that

so say its 80 and you have a 5% chance to parry... your chance to parry will be 5%.

But most raid mobs are 85/86; and con ORANGE to you... that gives them an inate chance to hit you; so even if you fully cap your parry vs level 86 mobs you're looking at say a 3% chance to parry.

Most named and many trash mobs actually have an increased chance to hit you (like our accuracy bonus) so lets say your ubbah capped parry of 600 now has a 2% chance to avoid.

PLUS... all TSO mobs have a 25% chance to strike through any avoidance check.. which means your entire parry skill works out about 1.75% avoidance.

Debuffed fully and maybe it'll rise to 5% check max.

Using 500 parry instead of an over the top 600 parry may only give you 1.8% chance to avoid an attack using contested parry instead of 2%

Contested avoidance is virtually meaningless against undebuffed mobs. If a dirge can shave a single second off the encounter time due to a different spec he would reduce the tanks incoming damage by 10x what defensive spec will give.

... and before you quote ACT autoattack at me showing 20%+ parry.. remember that many of those checks are against UNCONTESTED avoidance. and only a small portion of them are contested avoid of which an even smaller part how much dirges buff.

I'm not saying do NOT grant the tank parry.. its nice.. but there is no need to enhance it the mit it offers grants more damage reduction than increasing your parry buff.

I may not know much about dirging... but tanking and avoidance I know waaay to much. I think against herioc your parry against even con undebuffed mobs your parry skill varies from 5-20% but against raid mobs this avoidance score is DRASTICALLY cut; to such an extent you can virtually IGNORE contested avoidance checks.

So this is one tank saying to spec dps :P

Orani

What is so nice about the Dirge's parry song, except for the TSO AA mit upgrade? Sounds like it is quite almost completely worthless regardless of the amount of tank's parry skill.

Also, I am a bit confused, GU29 states parry has a 5% base check that is further increased with parry skill amount that is then calculated against the mob's lvl and offensive ability ... so I am a bit confused

If ya have any reference material further explaining this, I am very interested and love to read it.

Vuetee

whoa that was hard to read... sorry boli it just was!!!

And if i spec dps i have no excuse for slacking, that's my real reasoning behind my 'flexy-spec' :P lol.

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==== Intentionally Left Blank ====
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Vuetee, 80 Dirge, 400 Tinkerer, Myth, 6xT4, 200AA
Valdoartus, 80 Assassin, Myth, 3xT4, 175AA
Faemous, 80 Wizard, Myth, 2xT4, 160AA
Only a fool takes offense where it was not intended
Guess who I bumped into on the way to the opticians? (Everyone!)

boli

I'll shorten it:

Contested avoidance is checked against:

the mobs level
the mobs "con" colour
the mobs +slashing/crushing/piercing skill
the mobs accuracy bonus (if any, named normally)
all of which is reduced by a further 25% due to strike through.

Which means contested avoidance (which +parry skill is) is meaningless against epics; 20% parry chance can literally be reduced to 1% parry. Enhancing that 1% to be *slightly* higher does literally nothing.

Enhance the parry buff with mitigation, that is good - helps the group against melee AoEs; gives the tank a *small* bonus but that small bonus is more than the enhancement of of the +parry gives.

That is the part where we call it "contested"; it is checked against the mobs level; and offensive abiity, look further into the notes at the same time and you'll see that it matters what COLOUR the mobs con to you also.

As for reference material I'm afraid you'll have to trust me or experiament yourself... I could find the relavent dev quotes or experiments done by people on this board but i'll take the rest of the day and neither you nor me have that amount of time on our hands :P