help with dps please??

Putrefy · 11-03-2009, 06:52 PM

hey well pretty much i just coime back from a long breakand i got a 72 dirge and im trying to get decent at dps but i seem to actualy suck atm :/
i was wondering if theres a certain casting order in order to get decent dps atm i was doing about 400-900

Vuetee · 11-03-2009, 07:25 PM

super ubah secrets of the dirge here

/you'rewelcome (you know, there's a reason some people get flamed, try to avoid it and look at the STICKIED notes at the top of the page, especially if one is labelled quite blatently... 'The Dirge's Guide to Success'...)

Cronoise · 11-03-2009, 07:26 PM

check this out: http://www.eq2flames.com/dirges/1653...-rotation.html

also what vuetee said

Kall · 11-04-2009, 02:22 PM

I sent this out as a PM a while back to someone who was asking how to parse in the upper echelon. This probably won't help anyone new, but maybe it'll help someone else randomly reading this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kall

The main aspect of parsing high right now for a Scout and Fighter is not using your abilities in an optimum order, it's making absolutely sure you do not miss an auto attack under any circumstance. Whether that means rushing in with the tank and pressing ~ the instant the tank aggros the mob (never open with a bow shot unless you absolutely have to), switching to an add when the mob being focused is at 10% or less, or timing your auto attacks in between abilities; this is the main factor that will drive up your parse. Target clears, stuns, knockbacks, and disarms hinder people from auto attacking efficiently and it's more important to react to these control effects with a target macro and fast reflexes to resume auto attacking (like breaking out the bow for a round while you get back in melee range) to parse high. This is the reason why a lot of players get exposed in tough fights, the inability to react to control effects without missing any more than the effect forces you to. It's not optimum casting order despite what most people and the devs want to believe.

Play aggressive and take chances. You might die a few times by miss timing a turnstrike or ripping aggro within the first 2s from a tank but these are the kinds of things which will make you better in the long run.

Orani · 11-04-2009, 05:35 PM

Yeah, I definitely agree with ya there Kall. I call it the human focus/response lag; this is generally quite high for new players or for a fella that's about to finish his bottle of Tequila. Unfrotunately, I have seen quite a few raid geared dirges with a naturally high human focus/response lag; I do not know if this is due to laziness or complete apathy. /sigh. ACT is a fun program since a fella can literally observe the casting order of another player and exactly when something is cast.

Also, seems many new players have no clue about their spell/ca cast time causeing some insane delays between their autoattack. Generally, for beginners, cast 3 items between autoattacks or 2 items when Chimes is activated, but do NOT cast Banshee (for me, 1.7s cast) and Jarols Requiem (for me, 2s cast) when weapon delay is under ~3.5s. Remain astute to pair casts properly with particular weapon delays. Heck, at 2.4s weapon delay with a little server lag, I can only cast one 1.7s.

Switching targets when they are about to die is a good thing if ya need to cast Darksong Blade, Banshee, or Scream of Death. Otherwise, remain on your current target since the current target is the target with all of the debuffs allowing your autoattacks/casts to hit harder. Ya have to judge this yourself. For some raiding guilds 10% mob health literally means the mob is dead in 2 seconds, and for other guilds, this could mean much longer.

10 meters, even 15 meters, is way too close to even think about activating a bow attack. To help give an example to judge the distance, our Howl of Death has a range of 10 meters (without 12Tone earing). For me, a bow attack delay is 6s until I am allowed to activate an autoattack. When mob is 15 meters, the mob is coming in so fast that ya might be able to cast both Clara's and Zander's. If ya cast a bow attack too early, then you will cast Clara's, Zander's, Shroud+M.kiss macro, and another short < 1.1s cast till able to autoattack while the mob is at melee range for a couple seconds or more yelling at you "hit me with your sword woman".

I would only use a bow attack if required to joust or when the mob is 25+ meters away. Otherwise, if around 10-25 meters, cast a green debuff or two and another spell, by now the mob is within 5 meters for M.Kiss. If mob is at 10 meters, meh, casting Shroud+M.Kiss while rushing the mob; tanks love or hate me. M.Kiss has a 5 meter range, or higher depending on 12Tone earring buff.

meh, figure I should share eventually ... guide to the orani i created to help add to the perspectives out here.

Vlix_Oasis · 11-06-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orani

When mob is 15 meters, the mob is coming in so fast that ya might be able to cast both Clara's and Zander's. If ya cast a bow attack too early, then you will cast Clara's, Zander's, Shroud+M.kiss macro, and another short < 1.1s cast till able to autoattack while the mob is at melee range for a couple seconds or more yelling at you "hit me with your sword woman".

If you raid with Troubs, let them cast Zander's. The important ones for us are Daro's, Descant, and Clara's. If you start off with Daro's and Verlien's on a long pull you can get that extra debuff on before they are in melee range. Tarven's and Dull Blade are good ones to get in once they reach melee range, M. Kiss if you use the 12-Tone.

I agree with Kall 100%, the biggest factor in parsing high is how good you are with your autoattacks. If your not getting in every possible melee swing for whatever reason, a casting order will not fix your dps. Once you can proficiently time casting without delaying autoattacks, then you can concern yourself with a Casting Order.

Orani · 11-06-2009, 08:53 PM

Yeah, I agree there about Zander's debuff when with a troub in raid, especially since they can AA buff it. Also, I wouldn't assume the troub will cast zander's soon so can double check with ACT parsing. But, hell, they should be casting Zanders asap.

To make a blatant statement of "do not delay autoattacks" is bogus. Not all autoattack delay harm DPS the same; I am talking about a .3s delay here, .2s delay there, and only one .4s delay per encounter. Don't go overboard with too many of the delays; Otherwise, the total autoattack delay will eventualy equal your weapon delay, which is a potential autoattack.

The only time I would never delay an autoattack is when the encounters are very quite long compared to your weapon delay.

For fellas just beginning with low gear quality, spell damage plus combat art damage is 25%~30%. Can lose a noticeable amount of DPS when unable to properly pair castings. From the parses I have seen in the dirge parse sticky, the ca/spell damage total remains near 20%. Managing proper cast pairing is the nitty gritty that can pay off, regardless of the amount. Much more of a difference when weapon delay hovers around 3.3s such as in a MT group, without constant CoB and lack of haste from items.

Just look at the ACT parse. Yes, autoattack damage is a huge chunck, but this is not the same as saying it is all of the damage.

Sure, can take the safe road and only cast one, or maybe two, spell/ca between autoattacks and works fine most of the time when weapon delay is below 2.8s, but damage will be lost when utilizing one or two casts with a higher weapon delay.

Easy to not miss an autoattack opportunity, regardless of the damage loss out of the 20%~30% ca+spell pool. Becomes more difficult when casts become involved. I think it is working in the casts that screw up player's parse, but won't ever know until able to actually view an ACT encounter log to analyze their exact casting and when autoattack swings.

... sorry, late edit, added my edit to reply

Vlix_Oasis · 11-06-2009, 10:42 PM

Delaying any autoattack can become a autoattack loss, even a .2 delay. I can't count how many fights where just tenths of a second is the difference between hitting and not hitting that extra autoattack. The truth is encounters just don't round themselves off according to our weapon delay so that theory (it's only a miss when delay is >= your weapon delay) above is just not true.

It may be a small hit on a tank'n'spank fight but when you are fighting stuff that messes with your autoattack like disarms, KB's, ports and stuns. Each one of those delays throughout the fight is a potential missed attack. Even jousting is the same effect since you would rather have that extra melee turn than a bow shot. All that can add up to several missed swings which will effect your parse.

In either case, it is better to not get into the habit of delaying. TBH there is no reason not to time autoattacks. Delays do happen but make sure you can blame it on lag.

and not human error.

Orani · 11-06-2009, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlix_Oasis

The truth is encounters just don't round themselves off according to our weapon delay so that theory (it's only a miss when delay is >= your weapon delay) above is just not true.

All theories have their exceptions; however, the exception does not always determine the theory. This is why they are called 'exceptions' to the theory instead of The theory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlix_Oasis

It may be a small hit on a tank'n'spank fight but when you are fighting stuff that messes with your autoattack like disarms, KB's, ports and stuns. Each one of those delays throughout the fight is a potential missed attack. Even jousting is the same effect since you would rather have that extra melee turn than a bow shot. All that can add up to several missed swings which will effect your parse

True. I never thought of that, so on mobs with such control effects ...

This is the only risk to even slightly delaying an autoattack by .2s or .3s. What are the chances that a control effect activates in this .2s~.3 delay? I guess is roughly a 9%~12% chance (within a window of 2.4s weapon delay) of occurring, and this risk ONLY applies with encounters that do have and applies at the cast of such control effects.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlix_Oasis

Once you can proficiently time casting without delaying autoattacks, then you can concern yourself with a Casting Order.

Ya got it backwards.

Casting order determines whether a player can proficiently cast without delaying autoattacks.

Now whether a fella's .9s (for me) cast in the casting order is Daro's Dull Blade or Rhythm Blade or Verliens or Tarvens is a different matter.

Vlix_Oasis · 11-07-2009, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orani

Ya got it backwards.

Casting order determines whether a player can proficiently cast without delaying autoattacks.

Now whether a fella's .9s (for me) cast in the casting order is Daro's Dull Blade or Rhythm Blade or Verliens or Tarvens is a different matter.

If that works for you, cool but personally I would strongly suggest rethinking the process. Logically to maximize DPS, the first step is to maximize the use of the very thing that gives you the most DPS. For dirges that is our autoattacking. This is why I say delaying autoattacks hurt your DPS because that is essentially minimizing our best tool for DPS (for something that does less damage). After that, then think about a Casting order and that list fills in the space between Autoattacks without interfering with them.