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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Rhythmic Overture + Victorious Concerto...

    I have seen it proccing 40k (not personally, but it has been seen on parses).

    maybe you should let everyone know when you're about to put up RO so that you can get as much temp buffs like RoA or whatever on you (and so that mages know to put groupwide buffs up etc). Having a lot of potency, crit and crit bonus also helps too, and agi. BUT they only effect you. You should try getting a group of you to summon a good handful of dummies, then get everyone to debuff one and buff you up, attack the dummy with RO up, then when VC goes up get everyone to attack their own dummy and you'll see that not everyone is hitting for the same.

    Everyone's base stat affects the damage (fighters str, scouts agi, priests wis, mages int), and then potency does, and then crits + crit bonus does too.

    I would guess the bulk of it is timing temp buffs around RO for the bard and then timing other beneficial casting speed + haste buffs (and, if there's such thing, base stats/potency/crit/bonus) around VC.

    How I wish we had a new myth that made RO groupwide and VC raidwide, taking the same portion of damage :P that would rock the DPS... i think raids would start to see 1mill dps RW lol.

    Altho some raids are half way there I heard...
    So, I pulled last night and got an exquisite chest...
    Vuethon @ Blogspot

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Rhythmic Overture + Victorious Concerto...

    Can anyone confim ro only records from you and not the group. It reads that was but some seem to think it records group dps
    Mask

    Wanderers of Norrath
    www.wonguild.com

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Rhythmic Overture + Victorious Concerto...

    Just you. RO = your damage recorded... VC = your group gets a proc
    So, I pulled last night and got an exquisite chest...
    Vuethon @ Blogspot

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Rhythmic Overture + Victorious Concerto...

    Casting speed has always made a difference for a Dirge; only difference now is there is something (R.O.) to smack ya'll in the face to finally realize it and that much easier to obtain +casting speed. Casting speed determines how complete the weapon delay window can be filled. Ya will only delay your autoattack if ya don't give a damn about paying attention to the actual casting speed of your abilities and figuring how casting routines change in-combat. There is a sweet spot according to the weapon delay. (38% cast spd + 32% recov) might be perfect for 2.5s weapon delay window, but it might be less effective with 50% casting speed for a 2.5s weapon delay window (depending on server side lag). With ~53% cst spd+32%recov, easy to fit 3 damage abilities within a 2.5s window without delaying autoattack depending on server lag and if ya click the proper damage abilities. Bad part tho, server side lag will completely screw the benefits of your casting speed until it gets buffed damn high ~80%+ (from whatever tmp casts). Hell, with Divine Recovery or maybe Deathmarch, ya might be able to fit 4 damage abilities within a ~2.9s weapon delay window without delaying autoattack. Server side lag is why I would allocate casting speed behind everything else except ability modifier. So easy to get 800 self buffed ability modifier now and then their is the rogue and warrior ability modifier buffs.

    In context of RO, casting speed will determine whether ya can record that extra ability damage without delaying autoattack. After considering the amount of damage RO gives to your self and group, definitely worth it instead of 1.5 Crit Bonus or 40 ability modifier or ~30 AGI ... until server side lag rapes you. :smiley-indifferent:

    I am realizing tho that casting speed will mainly help your RO/VC parses and get more out of damage procs since SF damage proc are INSANE especially the various lovelies that do 3.2k encounter base damage and Stampede and etc, that is taking a bigger piece of the pie and making damage abilities smaller in comparison.

    Keep up the good work Vuetee and others. Interesting material here about the math for RO ya'll are making available. I appreciate it.

  5. #25
    Aggression comes back to you
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    Default Re: Rhythmic Overture + Victorious Concerto...

    If we are talking about RO/VC, then yes, casting speed completely rules.

    I finally arranged with the defiler in my group to have Alacrity on me + chanty to have Peace of Mind, both before casting R.O, that and a couple other things and I finally got a (very nice IMO ) 39k+ V.C, when previously I could only reach 20k at best.

    But then suddenly everything aligned (Alacrity+PoM+PotM+dispatch), and I began to see some nice numbers

    Outside of RO/VC, casting speed doesnt seem extremly determining to me... I have the feeling that building more and more crit bonus > potency > ability modifier is more important.
    And for ROs, coercer/clerics/shamans/troubs can help you get the casting speed you need...
    But I'll start to look more closely at items with +9% casting speed to test some of them eventually.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Rhythmic Overture + Victorious Concerto...

    once you have crit + DA capped along with a nice chunk of crit bonus, it's going to be more beneficial to be able to get 3 abilities out inbetween autoattacks than to get 2 abilities out...

    for instance, 2 abilities hit 1k each... both of which are critical hits. Adding 30% crit mod to both of them will make them hit about 1.2k each (depending on how high your crit mod currently is, the higher it is the less difference you see in this specific example). Now getting another 1k hit out with 30% crit mod less but 30% cast speed more will make you hit 3 for 1k rather than 2 for 1.2k, so your average hit will go down but your dps will go up.

    I would suggest that once you have DA + crit capped with a nice amount of crit bonus, ditch some of the crit bonus for cast speed until you can happily get 3 CA/spells out instead of 2 between autoattacks (without delaying them), and then I would focus on getting your crit bonus up.

    obviously, I would probably wait until about 100% crit bonus before doing this, as crit bonus also effects your autoattacks crit etc.

    Just my 2 cents (if that)
    So, I pulled last night and got an exquisite chest...
    Vuethon @ Blogspot

  7. #27
    Aggression comes back to you
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    Default Re: Rhythmic Overture + Victorious Concerto...

    What you say is at least partially incorrect, Crit Bonus doesnt provide a damage increase that follows a diminishing return curves, but is completely linear, so you will have the same benefit from +5% crit bonus applied either at 10, 50 or 125 initial crit bonus (as you probably know, crit bonus does not have a cap neither).

    Aside from that, I cant see any point in "just" casting significantly faster your abilities as with their recast unchanged you will find yourself with nothing to cast after a few moments. So I'd rather have bigger, more powerful abilities (and a stronger auto-attack) through +potency, +crit bonus, +ability mod, than casting weaker ones faster.

    If I could have "free" casting speed of course I would take it (that's the white adornment I've put on my cloak), but it stays a secondary choice for me.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Rhythmic Overture + Victorious Concerto...

    i never said it follows diminishing returns... just that, why apply X+30 amount of crit bonus to 2 abilities when you can apply X amount of crit bonus to 3 attacks???

    the part you got confused is this, when is 2 attacks with 30 crit bonus better than the other way around???

    2(X+30) > 3(X)
    2X + 60 > 3X
    60 > X

    so if your crit bonus is less than 90 (60>X, plus the 30 to sacrifice), don't bother sacrificing 30 crit bonus for 30 casting speed...

    There is relativity in 1 respect, just not diminishing returns...
    So, I pulled last night and got an exquisite chest...
    Vuethon @ Blogspot

  9. #29
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    Pelonious
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    Default Re: Rhythmic Overture + Victorious Concerto...

    crit bonus is still king... considering the fact that we are an auto attack heavy class... with our myth proc max damage and crit bonus are leet

  10. #30
    Aggression comes back to you
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    Default Re: Rhythmic Overture + Victorious Concerto...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuetee
    depending on how high your crit mod currently is, the higher it is the less difference you see in this specific example
    That sounds like diminishing return IMO.
    But if you have a spell doing for example 1000 dmg non-crit, a 10% crit bonus will give you exactly the same gain at 0% (1300->1400), 50% (1800->1900) or 120 crit bonus (2500-2600).
    The only decrease is in the ratio of that gain compared to the original amount but that doesnt mean in any case that the crit bonus becomes less desirable the more you have.
    And you seem to ignore the enormous gain it is for autoattack beside from abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuetee
    when is 2 attacks with 30 crit bonus better than the other way around???
    Everytime you wont be able to cast any useful spell, because lots of casting speed without big recast speed bonus is due to fail.

    Of course casting speed can allow you to make some group/raid wide procs like PoM and PotM more profitable... But taking into account what I see in the parses, a bigger auto-attack with bigger abilities >>> some more abilities cast

    If one could have an extremely high potency and very high reuse speed at the same time, I guess crit bonus could lose a bit of its interest Vs casting speed but you dont get reuse speed bonus that easily... A coercer and inqui could come handy there anw

    Maybe if a bard is completely unable to receive proper temporary buffs to use with RO/VC, he might find interesting to test several +casting spell items if the rest of his stuff can compensate... But it seems extremely less reliable to me in 95% of the situations than "auto-attack oriented" stuff, specially because there are tons of things that can screw your RO completely (DS+stun/KB/stiffle....... -_- ).

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