Kall

Too much of being a Dirge is passive. They need to stop giving us passive utility and do something unique with bards like they did with enchanters (VM and spell haste). Maybe add to Bard's Luck (our starter AA) an innate buff that doubles our chances of proccing item and spell procs, so classes don't waste their buffs on bards and gear is as useful to us as it is to other classes.

People will notice a good bard from a bad one, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really make a difference and that has to change. Until bards get an offensive stance, poisons, or something unique like I mentioned above, the class will be continued to be plagued with "buffbot syndrome" where guilds will carry bards that suck because as long as they're putting the right buffs up, they're doing their job.

I think I speak for a lot of bards when I say that I'm tired of every useful change for the class coming in the form of a passive buff that makes no difference whether the bard is being boxed or actually there giving it their all.

Paikis

I agree absolutely. Their reasoning is completely flawed, but it doesn't stop the same idiots from posting the same mindless drivel as their reason why bards have such low DPS.

I guess it's just like everything else about the class, the other classes evolved and gained more utility, more DPS, more group buffs from AAs, but the bards already had the utility. It's jsut a shame that we haven't really gained much (compared to other classes) in terms of DPS. While we're still the jack of all trades, masters of none, the other classes have become the jack of all trades, masters of one.

It's a sad day indeed, when a bard realises that everything he can do, can be done better by someone else.

kyros

on the contrary, i think bards have gained a lot in terms of being able to do dps. they've added damage to some of our spells and CAs and increased our autoattack dps potential, even just since i've been playing the class. should it stop there? no, i think there's still plenty they can do for both bard classes.

playing a dirge well on a raid is probably one of the most active roles. you have to watch your debuffs, know what buffs to have up, roll CoB, rez people when they die, and still maximize your own dps.

i've done healing on raids, it's either too spammy or too boring. i've also played a brigand, where doing "uber dps" was fun, especially when we were riding the line between drawing aggro and dying all the time, but in the end it was just the same thing every fight: chaining the same CAs every fight (they all debuffed and did damage, so there was no separation). with the dirge, i have to pay attention and be ready for things to change: someone dies, buffs need changed, debuffs need reapplied and i'm on to something "unexpected". sure, once you get it down, it has some repetition to it, but for me there has been much more variation in the role of the dirge on a raid, and that's what keeps it fun.

Cronoise

QFE!

GU38 certainly won't help our dps that much, I was wondering if there will be +CAdmg-adornments, haven't found a clue so far.

Paikis

Please look at the part i put in brackets, the compared to other classes part. Our DPS *HAS* been increased, but the ammount it was increased by was really a paltry ammount compared to other classes.

kyros

which classes have been getting their DPS increased?
the only things that come to mind lately in terms of change are nerfs... reducing the damage output of class x. for example, i also have a brigand, and i can't think of the last time there was a change that benefited brigand dps - instead, it's been steadily lowered. wheras, with dirges, we've been given access to a line that increases our double attack (and our group's), in addition to previous additions of autoattack damage, CA and spell damage.

i think we could use some more drastic changes to be considered a more potent force, but the changes in dps have certainly been in our favor. some classes have been getting slowly bled, and i'd much rather get occasional buffs instead of occasional nerfs. obviously, the recent change to luck of the dirge has a negative impact, but it seems to be mostly vestigial.

so, in summary, i am all for more change, but it's silly to say that we haven't been getting progress, even if it's gradual. some classes have been seeing the reverse.

Allania

i know the secret to why they are giving our deaths door more for when your hit and giving us defense armor, in gu 39 they are going to make it where if a dirge puts hate gain on themselves they get 60% hate gain and we are now the scout that is going to be tanking Tacticians Armorer. ;)

Kall

Stop diluting this thread with your stupid bullshit. You already did it in the spell consolidation thread, do not fucking begin to do it here.

You want to make a new thread with stupid shit, be my guest but I don't want a dev wasting a second of their time reading the worthless shit you've been posting in critical discussion threads.

The hate gain cap is 50%, so your attempt at sarcastic humor fails miserably right along with the dozens of other lame Tactician's Armor tanking dirge jokes.

Tactician's Armor can be tanked by a dirge just fine. I used to do it with no problems in my old guild when our Brigand wasn't around because we didn't have any other scouts worth a fuck.

Lint

GU38 *should* increase our dps slight due to longer weapon delays when DW. Not been out and tested this seriously though.

Any as for the +CA dmg-adorns had a look on test and there wasn't any, which is a shame because the +25 spell damage one will only add 3dps (It affects all spells so its Luda's, Tarven's and Banshee for me) to my casting cycle, where as I reckon the bruiser +90 CA buff has the potential to add 22.5dps, I've not managed to group with one on test to see how it affects our CA's though. By my reckon +1 spell damage is worth ~0.12dps while +1 CA damage is worth ~0.25dps. Of course those numbers assume that I manage to hit the spells as soon as they refresh.

Cronoise

I've been fooling around with the vampire-parse-bitches in CL, comparing Soulfire Sabre and Rapier of Darkness to Soulfire Sabre and AoNO. The latter indeed does more damage, but looses because of the longer delay and the slashing weapon.
So all in all my dps is likely to stay the same, the differences between the two combinations are minimal. When I take the groups of our raid into account, the AoNO-combination could gain from skillbuff in our MT-grp or from the illusionist in our scout-dd-grp.
So yeah, the changes *should* increase our dps slightly but better don't expect something astonishing ;)