DKP Systems Mine, Yours, Theres.

Rinion · 12-21-2006, 02:18 PM

How do they work? post a run down. What's one boss worth, or 1 raid? How is DKP spent, what can it be spent on? This is something I am very interested in as I feel it is one of the vertebra in the backbone of a guild.

So please post up your systems and if your interested please discuss possible improvements and point out flaws and why they are flaws.

Constructive criticism is very welcome. Ill start with my Idea of a functional 'Open Market' styled System.

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Quote:

DKP earned one per kill, raid killed 3 bosses? cool the raid was worth 3dkp then. I don't think time will be an issue because of how I've heard raiding will be set up. What I've heard is that you'll be able to pick up on a raid the next day where you left off yesterday. (probably due to the caravan system) meaning we wont have to pay overtime dkp unless well maybe the raid is almost over and we want to just finish it up and ask people to stay an extra hour? know what I mean?

anyway! DKP earned = 1 per boss
Bidding: personally I would like to go Open public Bidding with a buyout. meaning you can get the item for 1DKP if no one else wants it or if others do want it you can buy it out for say 10dkp (which could be a weeks worth) another thing we need to discuss.

Plat bids will be an option but with a minimum bid. and your only allowed to plat bid if no one bids DKP and there will be a limit on plat bids per month, so no one hordes DKP. the purpose of plat bids is to keep the guild funded. along with trash loot sells.

and the purpose of keeping the guild funded is so we can provide plat bonuses for ever X amount of DKP earned (X= to 2-4 weeks worth of raiding w/e we decide) and hopefully the payout from those should be substantial enough to keep our dedicated members funded in game.

it's kind of like a social security system. what you put into it you get out. but in the process of 'putting in' your actually just buying raid items.

Also I want DKP to be very open market with a special DKP forum. I want people to be able to go into the forum and post 'playerX bought 3 rough rubies form me for 4DKP' then an officer would simply take a look at that forum do the transaction of DKP in the database and in the interest of 'Reciepts' move the post to another "Receipts" thread so the other officers know its done, but it isn't cluttering up the other thread anymore.

Penalties: people can be docked for extreme disorderly behavior, there will be no ninja docks, you inform them you are being docked X amount and this is why. Think of it as paying a fine for a parking ticket.

We will have some dedicated crafters in the guild, and they may not raid at first or at all even and this is the main reason I want Free market DKP. so that even non raiders in our guild will be able to earn DKP.

obviously people at the raids will have first dibs on loot, but say the magicly hammer of uber crafterdom drops, well no 'hardcore' raider really wants or really needs that. so it goes to the bank then bam we have 3 blacksmiths pop up that want that. what do we do? sell it of course! we cant play favorites and give it to Crafter playboy Bunny X so we auction it off between all interested crafters for DKP they have earned from making items for other guildees or plat bid should none of them want to spend DKP.

(Plat bids were inspired by the Dark Horizons DKP system, thanks guys I liked it.)

Anyway that's the kind of system I plan on using for my future guild in vanguard or any other game I play and I would like some constructive criticisms from an outside source, so please have at it.

Malachani · 12-21-2006, 02:31 PM

Our DKP is earned 1 point per hour of raiding, so even if a mob doesn't die, we still earn DKP. There is also a DKP bonus for being on time and for staying till the end (1 point each). We have a DKP cap of 200. Minimum bid for legendary gear is 3, for fabled is 5. Its an open bid system, highest bidder wins. If two people have max DKP and both bid 200, then a /random 100 is done (but I don't think this has happened yet).

No cash bids, no DKP for cash from the guild bank (or to the guild bank), no docking dkp for penalties. Its very straightforward.

One of the things my old guild did in EQ1 that I thought was probably the best way to do bidding was a silent bid system. Item A drops, Officer B asks for bids. Members bid the MAX dkp they would spend for that item (not to exceed their current DKP). For example:

Player C bids 50
Player D bids 5
Player E bids 20
Player F bids 25

Obviously player C would win, because they "bid" higher, but instead of paying 50dkp, they would only pay 26DKP, 1 over the next highest. That way people didn't needlessly spend DKP. I loved it, and it was a good way to keep DKP costs from skyrocketing.

You were able to change your bid if you were outbid (say player F decides to up to 30, not knowing what the other players bid) but the winner never paid more than 1dkp over the next highest. It saved alot of time, because people were bidding the MAX they wanted to pay for that peice, instead of the MIN of what they would pay.

Pinski · 12-21-2006, 03:51 PM

Our DKP System is completely open. You get DKP for showing to killing named. You bid DKP in an open system, if somebody bids more, you can bid more than them. That's it. Plus there's a cap for how much you can have, bids start at 1.

No special rules, everything is open, so you can see if somebody is running you up on purpose, or trying to bid for items that are just stupid for their class so they can be openly made fun of.

Nurta · 12-21-2006, 04:03 PM

A long long time ago in a guild I lead this was our loot policy. It has undoubtedly changed but this was the SOP for loot for a while. I still like many of things in there but some I no longer agree with. It was the brainchild of myself and Zeijandi. For a hardcore raid guild it may not work b/c there are checks and balances in place but for a guild that raids (we raided over 4x a week) and still wants some measure of fairness it worked well.

If I had it to do over I'd give points based on raids/tagets and not length we had some very very very long raids and the points were very high. That itself wasn't too bad but the decay was a pita. Luckily eqdkp had mods to help with that

Loot Policy

Rinion · 12-21-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinski

Our DKP System is completely open. You get DKP for showing to killing named. You bid DKP in an open system, if somebody bids more, you can bid more than them. That's it. Plus there's a cap for how much you can have, bids start at 1.

No special rules, everything is open, so you can see if somebody is running you up on purpose, or trying to bid for items that are just stupid for their class so they can be openly made fun of.

basicly what im shooting for there. just a completly 'open Market' DKP as Money.
I'm forming it off what info I have of Vanguard and as far as I know so far raiding will be similar to tier 5 EQ2 raiding where some of the most powerful items will have to be crafted. plus there are the ships and un-instanced houseing..well crafting is going to be a big part of the game imo (I'd be disapointed if it wasn't) So the purpose of plat bidding and using DKP to pay guildees is to intergrat Crafters into the guild. (even people that only want to craft)

Basicly the goal is to run it as a business, and get shit done wether it be raiding, or buying up plots of land and owning our own cities.

luckily there will be plenty of time to change stuff around before people reach a level high enough to raid.

anyway, thanks for the info so far. I think I do like open bidding the best, and maybe a buyout/max bid or something.

Please continue.

Desann · 12-21-2006, 11:52 PM

Here is the way my guild does it:

zone in (being at the zonein on time and then zoning in): 15dkp
Standby (at the zonein at the correct time however raid is full): 12dkp
Every named is worth 5dkp
Some raids aren't worth DKP anymore, these are mostly t6 raid and labs, because labs is as easy as most t6 raids now.
Writs used to give 1dkp per at a max of 3 writs per day, this rule was removed when we hit GL40.
Heritage quests used to give 15dkp per as they award a shitton of guild status and can only be done once, same thing as writs happened.
Min bid is 40dkp, there is no cap on DKP and there is no cap on bidding, I hold the current record for high bids at about 840, then the item I bid that on dropped the next 4 raids in a row and went to an alt the 4th time

First few weeks in the guild you are a recruit, you can't accumulate DKP but you can recieve items that NOBODY wants, even alts are above the pecking order to prevent people from joining for a few days, getting a couple of items out of zones that everyone has done a million times now and has all of the loot they want from it and then leaving.
Alts can recieve loot if no mains with a rank of Member or higher bids on it, in which case alt bids are exactly like normal bids.
Bidding is 100% anonymous to anyone else who would want to bid on it, bids are sent to officers (usually raid leader), if the current raid leader wants to bid on an item, he must delegate the task of taking bids to another officer in raid, members can also take bids if no other officer is present.

If an item is a definate upgrade for the main tank or second tank, they may automatically recieve it for a cost of 300dkp, if both the MT and the ST need the item the MT naturally overrides the ST. This rule can be envoked only for main gear, backup or alt gear of the MT/ST is won by normal bidding. Generally this rule is useless as people will just let the MT take the item for 40, because outbidding the guy who is tanking for you on an item that will help the raid is retarded.

What I'd add to this:
Guild first bosses (not the trashy noob nameds) would be worth 25dkp instead of 5
Standby would get the full 15 credit for being there on time and would get 1dkp for every named that was killed in the zone while they are ingame, if they log off before one named is killed they only get 5dkp for being on time.
Change the MT/ST bid rule to 40 instead of 300, the MT has so much DKP from being present at virtually every raid that it dosn't matter if you make him spend 300, the MT is generally the best geared person in the raid and seldom bids on anything anymore (except when he's adding to his 2H collection :P).

Rinion · 12-22-2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desann

*all that stuff* *snip*

Why the values of 5, 15, and what not? I never understood the point of using larger numbers when in the end it all ends up the same anyway. I guess it is an illusion to make you think your getting a big Pay Out for something? but if everyone makes the same ammount for the same raids...well then it really isn't that big a payout.

Not a bad system over all though. Excpet I majorly dislike the writ thing, I believe DKP should only ever be given for raiding. Bonus points of helping level the guild, watching named, and what not seem like pay for prostitution.

Also..why are raids like Labs and T6 no longer worth DKP? I hope that means you just dont raid them anymore and not you do it for free.

eh maybe I'm just biased. Thanks for the info though!

Nurta · 12-22-2006, 10:55 AM

I'm a big fan of decay b/c it prevents hording of points and flushes things through quickly. Depending on how you do your bidding when people have huge amounts of points it can take forever /sigh.

We did channel auctions so everyone could see who was bidding what and there would be no cries of LIAR he didn't bid that much?!?! I bid more blah blah. It's just easier IMO, let them all see who's bidding and for how much and then they can decide how high they are willing to go.

Nurta · 12-22-2006, 11:01 AM

I just thought of another system and one that I loved. It was used in my EQ1 raid guild.

It was done with random number increases and it rewarded the frequent raiders.

Everyone starts out with the ability to roll 1/100. Then for each raid you attend the gap closes. The next raid I get to roll 10/100, next raid 20/100, 30/100, etc. So your chances increase until you reach 10 raids in which case you are given a point outright you can spend. You can only earn 2pts, and then as you keep raiding but haven't spent points the age of points comes into play. In other words if raiderA has a point and you have a point but your point is 1 day older you can win the item outright.

Bids take place with everyone rolling their random numbers for the item, usually limited to certain classes. Instead of rolling however a point can be spent. It seems complicated but from a management standpoint it was so easy. Guild officers/leaders were not responsible for telling anyone their numbers it was up to them and if they weren't sure they could only use 1/100. It was rare but someone rolling 1/100 could beat someone rolling 90/100, it just how the cookie crumbled though. I liked this system b/c it was so easy, but that's just me.