Widem

For the part that can't be quoted...

There has been an extremely neglected niche of society that is angry, you cant deny that. Time change and things are getting better, but for some it never does. For as much as America preaches on the separation of church and state when its politicaly convenient to lump the two together, they sure as hell will.

Furthermore, I don't think you quite got my point when i made my statistical exclusion inclusion joke. The point was you can find statistical similarities between alsmot anything. Your point correlated him to the leader of Iran, which gives a negative view. Whereas I could make up a bunch of criteria and link him to Mother Theresa, George Washington, or even Jesus. The point being you vote for a person for who he is, not by some random categorization you just made up on the spot.

Crabbok

10 instances of McCain loosing his cool do not make him unfit for the presidency. I'm sorry, I just don't believe they do. Whats more important are where a candidate stands on the issues.

I'm a republican but haven't committed my support to either candidate yet. I plan to do what every american should do. Listen to each guy and decide for myself who I think will be the better leader.

I hope whoever is elected, that they do their best and can help usher in another "Era of Good Feeling" or something similar.

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Arty

I agree with you completely and I think your statement was very well stated. I would offer the following counter:

Once you remove the arbitrary ad hominem attacks and categorizations from BOTH candidates, what's left. What would this debate look like if no one said things like

He's too old
He's Bush-lite
He's a war monger
He's corrupt
He's black
He's articulate
He's clean
He's going to change things
.. and the list goes on ad infinatum

What are you left with? We, the voters, are left with two people, one of whom advocates a socialist policy to include large tax increases, increased government spending on social programs, decreased funding in science and technology (namely manned space flight), a lax foreign policy towards fundementalist islamic nations, open borders, and more involvement of the government into our daily lives.

McCain ain't good... but he's better than a candidate whose policy statements in this election sound very Marxist, in my honest opinion.

At the end of the day, this election will not be decided on the actual core issues. I believe that this election is more of a popularity contest than a country electing a person that they believe will best represent and support their belief system and ideas for the future of the country.

THAT'S what scares me.


@ Gori...

I never said he wasn't intelligent. He obviously is, if for no other reason that he has half the country fooled. The fact that you enjoy his ability to roll up his sleeves and talk from the side of a podium instead of behind it does NOT mean that his policies are even remotely beneficial for the future of the country. It means that he's a good actor. Again, image (a category in which even I'll admit Obama beats McCain) is not the same as substance.

Otis

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Arty

Just a little nudge back into reality... it's not just "someone they know", it's a man who Barry even admited was a integral part of his life for over 20 years.

Someone you "know" is the hot little waitress at Hooters. I know her name, that she's "putting herself through college" and that she's obscenely hot. That's "someone I know"... not an significant part of my life for 20 years.

Furthermore, it's not just an issue of what the pastor believes, it's the fact that Obama sat there and listened to it and supported the church with his attendance and money for so long. You don't stay and support a church unless you agree with the message.

Some have said that Obama didn't know what specifically Wright thought or stood for... then why the hell would we elect someone who listened to and talked with a man for 20 years and still didn't know anything about him?!? That seems "indicative of the job they'd do as president" to me. /shrug

Otis

A close friend of mine whom I grew up with is a coke-dealing, racist cocksucker who's done time for everything from attempted murder to kidnapping. He's not a nice guy, a real sociopath.

I still love him like a brother. That doesn't mean I'm going to be helping him dispose of any bodies in the near future.

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Calbiyum

That's racist towards Obama.

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Krontak

I'm not sure if everyone has familiarized themselves with Obamas history. I'll give a quick low down.

When Obama began community work in the South Side of Chicago, he wanted to get all the church communities to work with each other. One person approached him and stated, if you want the Churches to work with each other, you should probably start attending Church yourself.

At that point, Obama joined Trinity United. He was a member of the congregation for 20 years.

Now, lets put the 2-3 minutes of Sermons blasted on YouTube into perspective. We've got the Chickens coming home to roost in reference to 9/11. The God damn America sermon as to how African Americans should respond when told to bless America after being subject to irreprehensible racism for decades after slavery was abolished. Then you've got the AIDS virus statement, a one liner mind you, and finally you got the marines acting like Roman soldiers,

"Remember it was soldiers of the Third Marine Regiment of Rome who had fun with Jesus, who was mistreated as a prisoner of war, an enemy of the occupying army stationed in Jerusalem to insure the mopping up action of Operation Israeli Freedom."

So, we've got these four excerpts of sermons, that have defined Trinity United Church.

Let me make this very clear, I am in no way defending these statements, nor do I agree with any of them before I go any further.

Now, considering Obama has been a member of this church for 20 years, is it really that much of a stretch to believe he wasn't around for these 4 excerpts of sermons that collectively, lasted about 2-3 minutes?

Furthermore, I'm sure every single sermon has been examined with a fine tooth comb from numerous news networks and private affiliations looking for the show stopper. I can assure you, if any other extreme radical far left ideologies existed, they would have most certainly have been vetted and exposed by now.

It would be a bit of a leap of logic to assume Obama is somehow a extreme radical leftist based on such a small sample of sermons.

Deson

But would you be a member of his church? Support him publicly? Hold him as a friend close enough to be a family friend beyond just you( Wife kids etc.)? Call him a spiritual mentor? Get pissy when he tells the truth about you on national television when he addresses an issue you created for both him and you when you tried to shuffle away from him?

I have friends like that guy too, and no is my answer to all but the last one because I'd never create the situation.

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Illuminator

TADAAAA

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Bow down before the one you serve. You're going to get what you deserve.