To be fair, the most recent two people that didn't have a chance--Ross Perot and Nader, gave Clinton and Bush the election. Can't blame people for being math savvy and knowing some measure of history. Now, if we had run offs that might be a different story.
If Perot hadn't dropped out he very much would have had a chance.
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. They won't win so I won't vote for them, which means they can never even come close to winning...
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Originally Posted by Illuminator
If Perot hadn't dropped out he very much would have had a chance.
I don't deny he would have had a chance or that the prophecy is potentially self fulfilling. The problem is that in both your cases, that chance is slim as hell and depends entirely too much on a populace that votes, in absence of strong personality, along party lines. The sheer volume of investment it would take a Perot supporter to convince a "follower" Dem or Repub makes the task a fool's errand. No 3rd party is going to win without another JFK or some other substantial "rock star" to make the work of his supporters easier. When faced with such reality, the smart money is to pick the devils you know because everyone else is just a spoiler.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LFG
I used my best efforts to try and be supportive of SOE and did everything in my power to try and keep things professional and courteous between SOE and it's players... I will not stand back and be blamed for the incompetence of SOE management.
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Originally Posted by Locke
I need to stop visiting this site, but I need my seasonal dose of spectating trainwrecks.
Show me a 3rd party/independent worth a shit beyond some narrow issue that's running on the national stage and I'll agree.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LFG
I used my best efforts to try and be supportive of SOE and did everything in my power to try and keep things professional and courteous between SOE and it's players... I will not stand back and be blamed for the incompetence of SOE management.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
I need to stop visiting this site, but I need my seasonal dose of spectating trainwrecks.
Show me a 3rd party/independent worth a shit beyond some narrow issue that's running on the national stage and I'll agree.
Bob Barr
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Originally Posted by Ethar
I'm write-in voting for Ron Paul. Who's with me?
I was for him. He just turned out to be a little crazy, and not such a good public speaker. Thats why i want barr in debates so we can see if he's a nut.
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Originally Posted by Kin Meds tbh
From what little I know of it you should elect the crazy old fucker just for the comedy value. Just make sure he has a good No.2 as I don't think he has 4 years left in him.
Some say the same about obama, but they're not talking about a heart attack.
-h
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Let us Pray the Pimp's Prayer.
Lord, please pray for the soul of this bitch and guide my pimp hand and make it strong Lord, so that she might learn a hoe's place.
I was for him. He just turned out to be a little crazy, and not such a good public speaker. Thats why i want barr in debates so we can see if he's a nut.
Some say the same about obama, but they're not talking about a heart attack.
I used my best efforts to try and be supportive of SOE and did everything in my power to try and keep things professional and courteous between SOE and it's players... I will not stand back and be blamed for the incompetence of SOE management.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
I need to stop visiting this site, but I need my seasonal dose of spectating trainwrecks.
Show me a 3rd party/independent worth a shit beyond some narrow issue that's running on the national stage and I'll agree.
There are more reasons why we won't have a viable 3rd party in our political system in the forseeable future. If a 3rd party finds an issue that's important enough to garner enough support to make a dent in the popular vote, major parties just pick it up. People also won't donate money to a losing cause. You can't really win without money. You can't get tax money for your party without a large enough portion of the popular vote. Without money you don't really stand a chance at winning. If you don't stand a chance at winning, people aren't going to waste their vote on you. Which is why it's a self-fulfiiling prophecy...
Perot seemed to come out of the blue, a surprise blitzkrieg might be what it takes, pounding hard before anyone can talk you down. Kinda like Obama when he was hiding in the shadows doing nothing, then BAM there he is! You gotta blindside the powers-that-be and do it with precision.
So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy because at the heart of it all the two party system is adequate on the national stage with U.S. politics. That's essentially what you just laid out. I personally prefer it over the crap countries like Israel have to put up with in their parliaments. If your third party can't embrace a broad range of issues and present them in non-cooptable ways or at the very least make the strong enough argument for why your party is the one to do it, you don't deserve to survive. Democracy isn't so much giving everyone a voice as much as it is giving everyone the chance to speak.
3rd parties die because they aren't worth a shit, the only thing self-fulfilling about that is said third parties being shit in the first place. When I see one that isn't it'll get my vote but until then it's all about the lesser of two great evils.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuminator
Perot seemed to come out of the blue, a surprise blitzkrieg might be what it takes, pounding hard before anyone can talk you down. Kinda like Obama when he was hiding in the shadows doing nothing, then BAM there he is! You gotta blindside the powers-that-be and do it with precision.
No, Obama got by because no one wanted to touch him early on. They didn't think he stood a chance then he started biting everyone else's ideas/speeches. Edwards was fucked before he even knew what happened and dug his own grave in New Hampshire when he did all the pulling against Hillary. It never ceases to amaze me how so many Edward's supporters moved on to Barack without acknowledging he essentially killed their guy by stealing his platform.
Ross was actually legit before he went batshit. Surprise isn't the key, competence is and he showed it in spades.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LFG
I used my best efforts to try and be supportive of SOE and did everything in my power to try and keep things professional and courteous between SOE and it's players... I will not stand back and be blamed for the incompetence of SOE management.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
I need to stop visiting this site, but I need my seasonal dose of spectating trainwrecks.
So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy because at the heart of it all the two party system is adequate on the national stage with U.S. politics. That's essentially what you just laid out. I personally prefer it over the crap countries like Israel have to put up with in their parliaments. If your third party can't embrace a broad range of issues and present them in non-cooptable ways or at the very least make the strong enough argument for why your party is the one to do it, you don't deserve to survive. Democracy isn't so much giving everyone a voice as much as it is giving everyone the chance to speak.
3rd parties die because they aren't worth a shit, the only thing self-fulfilling about that is said third parties being shit in the first place. When I see one that isn't it'll get my vote but until then it's all about the lesser of two great evils.
Noone is asking for a hyperpluralistic system like Russia, to suggest I said otherwise is rediculous and taking everything I said out of context. Whether you think any of the third parties are worth of shit has nothing to do with why I explained it's not going to happen any time soon. Unless you want to just argue because you think that's what you have to do for people to think 'ur smart lol.'
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