Krontak

His pledge to appoint conservative judges is probably the only reason many conservatives are voting for him. Please, show me a link where he has said otherwise so I can spread the news on the right wing radical web sites I hang out on.

Illuminator

Voting "present" is basically lying, like pleading "no contest" in court. It means you are using a maneuver to hide your unpopular stance from your constituents.

I notice this paragraph avoids the words "Black" and "White" which are found everywhere in her thesis. But why would most people need to go further than the summary introduction?


No, let me tell you exactly what she said, and not your revisionist account of what exactly she said:

Oooo does this mean you're about to go Otis on us?

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Bow down before the one you serve. You're going to get what you deserve.

Krontak

Lying? Not quite. Its similar to a fillibuster.


"I notice this paragraph avoids the words "Black" and "White" which are found everywhere in her thesis. But why would most people need to go further than the summary introduction?"

The paper is on black and white relations. Of course its going to mention the words black and white. Exactly what is your point?

What exactly was she playing victim to? To being black? I guess I don't get what you're getting at. It was the 80's. She was in a predominantly white university. Are you saying she was never reminded of the color of her skin? She was stating facts. She wasn't victimized in any way and I don't see her playing any sort of victim.

So, tell me, with how vague just about everything you say, are you trying to tell me nobody has ever misinterpreted anything you said without further clarification?

Cast the first stone much hypocrite?

Laodaron

Krontak is as out of touch with reality as Otis was, and as most severe lefties who are fighting tooth and nail this election so as not to be laughed at for actually supporting someone like Obama.

Lamil

fuck obama, fuck mccain, fuck shit up.


ps. and get fucked up.

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Deson

Search for it. I'm not going to do the work for you so you can sabotage my candidate. Regardless, it's not why they are voting for him, it's why they aren't trying to kill him like they did in 2000. If you look at his speeches, he's more trying to keep them from opposing him and hopefully getting their votes when they realize someone who agrees with you 82.2 percent of the time is better than someone who votes with the other side over 90%. They are careful of him because unlike people on your side it seems, they are looking at his record. Limbaugh, Hannity and Coulter all shit a collective brick when he came out of the primary because they thought they killed him in 2007. Now, why would they be so scared of someone who supposedly agrees with them and sound so incredulous when they repeat his "concessions"?

Michelle Obama meant what she said. The entire context of the rally, her behavior at other rallies, their clear statements of how bad America is currently as well as her life before Barack (it's because of her that Chicago businesses gave him "black cred") make it clear that seeing the support around her husband, an African-American, is what is making her proud. As I have said about many statements by Barack and affiliates that were later disavowed or cleaned up, there was nothing wrong with what she said. As a black woman in America, what exactly has happened, not just in her adult life but in her entire life for her to be proud of? Reagan? H.W. Bush? the Clinton years? Taken from birth, she barely clears the latter part of the civil rights movement. As a black woman her life experience gives her an entirely different take on just about every event that could be proclaimed to include the first Desert Storm. She meant exactly what she said and there is jack shit wrong with it.

The present vote isn't akin to a filibuster, it's akin to not showing up for a vote to not go on record and thus not have the vote used against you. Occasionally it's also used as a protest vote for bills you don't disagree with entirely but may have issues with provisions. The key with Obama is what he used those "present" votes for. Not only did he use them to duck women's rights issues but on key issues to the black community like prison sentences, he voted present to duck pissing people of on both sides of his constituency. In short, Obama used the present vote in precisely the manner it is commonly used-- to duck having a real voting record on tough issues; that's not me saying it, that's Planned Parenthood saying they used it to protect vulnerable legislators like Barack.

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Krontak

Its late but tomorrow, I'll go to a site, called Human Events. I'll pose the question, and I can guarantee you they will all say they are going to hold their noses and vote for McCain only because of of his pledge to appoint conservative judges. I'll post the results.

I think you are speaking of the quote, "downright mean country." I was referring to her "proud of her county" statement. Not sure. I've seen both Obama's and Michelle's responses to that on T.V., his web site, interviews, etc. They all state the proud quote was when she was referring to the political process taking place. I didn't hear anything relating to race relations.

I guess people have different interpretations depending on which side of the isle they come from. I understand the interpretation you've read and given. I also understand it can be a way of expressing displeasure with one or more pieces of the legislature but believing in the overall cause.

Deson

No it's not because there are real reasons why an innocent man would plead no contest beyond cowardice. Present is a purely craven political tool designed to aid politicians in not doing their jobs. While it can be useful in principled situations like "gotcha!" votes, the overwhelming use of it is to duck as you said.

Post your results and you'll do nothing more than support what I already said. Regardless, it means jack and shit what he promised since the congress will be Democratic; he's not even getting Roberts past the Senate. The absolute worst judge type he will be able to appoint, from a Dem perspective will be O'Connor who was given a fairly bad wrap for actually doing the job right.

Wow, so you really believe all race relations issues have to be explicitly about race relations and not be implied by action, process and culture? Don't pay attention to what they say, pay attention to the tenor of the presentation and the history of the people involved. Her pride is in no small part because white people are supporting her husband and showing that America can move forward and away from all the racial bullshit. Yes her saying "downright mean" is part of it but so is her mentioning the Barack "can be shot" and all other cues that show she is still very much black in America.

What side of the aisle has little to do with the reality of the practice;it's the exact same as not showing up for a vote to keep from going on record, period. People of all political colors have used it for precisely that reason. Is it used to express displeasure? Yes but if you are that unhappy you should vote "no" and have it brought up again piecemeal or vote yes and acknowledge politics involves some shitty compromises. If politicians would actually engage the public and stop treating them like children, maybe people will actually stop being children and see what's really going on..wait...didn't Obama's new politics promise that too? Let's try that here...

So, besides drilling, McCain and Obama both support essentially all the same energy options? If that's true as you said, why are the Dems attakcing him so viciously on his overall policy when it's the same as their candidate?

Just saw this and I'm intentionally ignoring the joke to respond. I'd just read several pages of drivel from the Guardian and several other Euro papers that seem to think that our system works like Europe's with the parties. American politics, especially before this current political era the came in around 1994, is, was and hopefully will always be based on the individual, not the party. Obama will not be able to do what he says( even if he really means to) because even though he will have a Dem congress, members of that congress will still have to contend with voters in their home states. It's telling when people vote no on meaningless Roll Call votes just to have sheilding from being called a party lackey. I'm annoyed by so many Euro's thinking Obama is their messiah( yes they say it when they describe Euro support), without being well versed in American political culture.

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aduros

Actually it's both extremes that get laughed at pretty consistently. Rational people understand reality often lies somewhere in between.

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Deson

I left this alone earlier because it would have detracted from meatier points.

Given how Obama has campaigned since that statement, given how the Democratic party has behaved since and given how Obama supporters such as yourself have behaved on these very forums, let alone out in the world, do you think she's still proud? If so, how can she be?

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