icKx

Should we also deny insurance claims on 18-and-overs for treatment of an STD? Close your legs whore?

I get your drift and STD's and a pregnancy aren't the same, but we're all human and mistakes can happen even if you try your best to be safe.

Oizen

This is an excellent point and although I have strong personal beliefs in this department (accidental or not), I'm surprisingly understanding of the rights of my ignorant brethren.

It's a personal choice... like it or not... if someone chooses to kill, that is their cross to bare. If they'd like me to talk them out of it, I feel confident that my friendship would help them. Ultimately, I believe people are given the gift of choice for a reason.

The government can fuck right off when it comes to the majority of the choices we make. Society will find an organic way of doing what needs to be done, when it needs to be done.

Lamil

I guess my belief is when a baby can be born premature, and still survive, then abortions are killing them. But yea IDK still.

22 weeks is the youngest surviving premature, and thats with a LOT of medical treatment.

so what, 4-5 months? eh, that sounds about right. maybe even a bit sooner as the cutoff.

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Illuminator

Taking abortion off the federal docket isn't a clear win for either side, it just gives the power back to the states who originally had it. This means true federalism is the workhorse that decides the issue; some states will allow it and others will ban it, according to their local sensibilities.

The most powerful quote in the book goes something like this: our government should be Constitutionally enforced to a degree that someone with philosophies opposite to yours could get elected and not send you into a panic, as we commonly do today (and this is what really is dividing us).

The complete picture the book provides is so sound that I'm willing to give up stances on certain issues to see it through. I just hope his supporters don't see him as merely useful resistance to the Iraq War while it lasts, without paying attention to his full message. If you protest Bush's encroachments on executive power but on the same hand say that entitlements are the final word on helping the poor, you aren't paying attention.

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Bow down before the one you serve. You're going to get what you deserve.

Hoss

Ahh man, this thread restored my faith in the denizens of EQ2Flames. The only thing wrong with Ron Paul was that he sucked at public speaking. The only times I ever heard him in interviews, or on news shows, he was shrill and on the defensive.

I'm hoping Bob Barr will be better. Remember, tell everyone you know to tell the pollsters they're voting for Bob Barr, because supposedly, if he gets to 15% in the polls, they have to let him into the debates. I don't really know if thats true, but its worth a shot.


-h (course, if McCain is smart, he'll get Barr to to be his running mate)

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Let us Pray the Pimp's Prayer.
Lord, please pray for the soul of this bitch and guide my pimp hand and make it strong Lord, so that she might learn a hoe's place.

Amen

Deson

15% is about right. That's the threshold to make sure they block a spoiler. Barr is going to have to work harder if he wants to be noticed though.As a former congressman he should have an easier time getting through the BS but he's going to have to deliver better than his 3rd party predecessors.

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aduros

The problem with making all trimester abortions illegal is that it becomes an issue of wealth. Those with money will simply fly overseas where abortion is legal, and have the procedure performed safely. While those lacking the funds will be forced to resort to back alley clinics and shady practices (coat hanger anyone?).

Abortions will happen regardless of it's constitutional status. It's just a matter of providing safe, sanitary places to perform the procedure v.s satisfying a desire to push ones moral or religious values on others.

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Illuminator

Is anything not a matter of wealth? So what?

Or they might do something so radical as...give birth and raise the child?

I surely doubt that 100% moral conviction is what keeps people living a 100% legal lifestyle. So what if it doesn't stop all abortions. There will be fewer.

Either way, the fight belongs to the states because nothing in the Constitution nor in the historical record of its origins suggests abortion was ever intended to be a universal right.

Just like the book says, you're forced into classifying human fetuses as parasites to justify this as an arbitrary "value".

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Bow down before the one you serve. You're going to get what you deserve.

Hoss

I'm in favor of allowing abortions up to the 63rd tri-mester. If, at any time before the kids 18th birthday, the parents realize they've fucked up royally and have produced a menace to society, it should be their obligation to 'take care' of the parasite.



-h

__________________
Let us Pray the Pimp's Prayer.
Lord, please pray for the soul of this bitch and guide my pimp hand and make it strong Lord, so that she might learn a hoe's place.

Amen

aduros

So then what are you accomplishing by banning abortions in America? Aside from patting your ego on the back.

If someone doesn't want to give birth, they will not give birth. Those that do will be raising unwanted children (if they decide to raise it at all), how fucked up do you think that kid will be? As a fiscal conservative, I'm sure you'd be happy seeing all that tax money go to work taking care of those children too.

There will be fewer legal abortions, and higher number of female deaths. An even trade I suppose.

For the legal aspect with the states, as a constitutionalists yourself, you should have no trouble obeying U.S. Constitution: Article III, Section 2

I don't consider it anything. In fact I think of it no differently than when I "pull out" or wake up and decide to rub out the morning wood. That's countless potential lives wasted right there.

The same way you wish the government to step in and demand a woman give birth, I believe the government has no right in determining what a person does with their body. The government shouldn't be used as a tool to push moral convictions.

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