Hammerfist

Pot meet kettle.

quamdar

i agree, people need to stand up and send some of these "neo cons" that are on a quest to spread their ideologies around the world.

Senate:
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Breaux (D-LA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Miller (D-GA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Torricelli (D-NJ)

or by "its the neo cons and their fucking quest to spread their ideologies across the world." did you just mean the republicans that voted for the war?

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I had the man at subway put tomatoes on my sandwich cause i didn't like the way he was making it.

Otis

No, he meant McCain's ongoing support for the war after the Senate vote. I know, it's a tough concept to grasp when your IQ is the same as your waist size and the video in the OP even had dates for soundbites that were after said vote, but do try to work on it.

Anyway, can we now do away with the ridiculous notion that Obama is the media darling? More from the "surge architect" only yesterday (and CBS News' attempt to cover his ass):



Obama campaign: McCain flubs on Iraq timeline - Yahoo! News

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John McMaverick

Deson

Thanks Hammerfist. That clip also had

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drychnath

Here's a suggestion, if the war was such a "Mistake" then the folk that freely admit such a "mistake" really need to be fired and prosecuted. If I made a mistake at work that got thousands of people killed, I'd be rotting in jail right now.

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EQ2: Avenger Drychnath Malcherion -AB

Everything is on a great scale upon this continent, the rivers are immense, the climate violent in heat and cold, the prospects magnificent, the thunder and lightning tremendous, the disorders incident to the country make every constitution tremble. Our own blunders here, our misconduct, our losses, our disgraces, our ruin Are On a Great Scale.
-Lord Carlisle

Deson

Yes but McCain and Obama both supported the war after the vote. Both also said that they needed to make sure that things went right in Iraq. The difference is that when it came time to show and prove, McCain supported the surge and it worked. As for the McCain flub, meh, happens. He's said a lot of dumb shit and made mistakes before. The difference is he has a history to protect his ass from the worst of it.

Obama is still the media darling and there's nothing ridiculous about it. He may not get the same amount of mileage he did against the Queen D but they are still very much in the tank for him.When I see one mainstream outlet seriously question him then I'll drop it but until then, he is what he is and I keep seeing messianic coverage and seeing his followers try to convert even as they shower me with insults for asking legit questions.

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Otis

I disagree.

This wasn't just a flub. Saying "Iraqi - Pakistan border" was a flub, just as Obama saying "Israel is Israel's best friend" yesterday.

What this man said yesterday is what he thought. He listed multiple points of incorrect information and stated them to be "historical fact" when in fact the opposite was true. The irony was that he was doing so while questioning Obama's grasp of the whole situation.

By believing Military action was the cause of the Sunni Awakening, what this illustrates is McCain's core belief that force solves all problems. That, to me, is unacceptable.

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John McMaverick

Deson

Just opened the paper and this greeted me. Edit: The Washington Post supports me it seems. Nice surprise to open the paper to. washingtonpost.com


The Surge did work. Did McCain fuck up facts? Yes, I won't argue that. But it's no worse than Obama saying progress would have come without the surge. Maybe I missed it but no one has asked him if that same progress would have come had he gotten his withdrawal. Fact is when the Surge was a set deal, Sadr backed down not wanting to be a target. If memory serves, he actually got the fuck out of dodge. Malaki's group and Sadr's group were and are still engaged in turf wars that sap the Iraqi military's strength, the Surge cut back on a lot of the overt fighting allowing a virtual troop surplus. The Awakening councils? you mean those groups that really only seriously engaged when they saw the U.S. wasn't abandoning them? What about the clear and hold strat made possible by the extra troops? Denying Al-Qaeda footholds and duck-aways that they had in the past was also part of the Surge.

The Surge worked, period. I'll concede that it's nuts to credit just the Surge with the turn-around but it's equally nuts to think half the progress that has come about would have come without the surge strat- a strat McCain has advocated since 2003.

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Otis

How about:

The surge helped.

Sound reasonable?

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John McMaverick

Deson

Good here. All I've ever wanted to hear.

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