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Old 07-28-2008, 01:34 PM  
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Default Re: John McCain's Neverending War

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You mean like after over 15 years of service plus some very notable actions of political courage on his part? Not saying he didn't get a pass but he worked for it for damn sure.


Worked for it? You are seriously excusing the horribly soft treatment he received in 2000 because he "earned it?" Or am I reading this wrong and you really do condemn the entire practice of allowing personal feelings and bias to sway how a candidate is portrayed?

BTW, the only reason we heard about McCain's "independent appeal" was because his main rival was Bush. It is sometimes hard to spot which candidate reporters like but it is extremely easy to spot the ones they hate.
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:36 PM  
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Default Re: John McCain's Neverending War

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The Marine Corps is a rapid response expeditionary force. It's design is to get to any hotspot ASAP and stabilize it, then move on as regular Army holds it. Your prebudget cut size was built to be able to rapidly respond to Soviet incursion world wide and slow if not completely thwart initial Soviet action. That skill set just happens to come in handy when doing missions like the Balkans and Somalia but that still doesn't justify the size we had for an enemy that no longer existed and had no apparent successors.
Russia was ready to take up the Soviet mantle at any time and the apparent successor for a decade has clearly been China. The only people who haven't seen that are the people who willfully ignore it. Bill Clinton was well-practiced in that.

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Thank you for illustrating why grunts belong in the field kicking ass instead of making policy, Marine.
He's saying that the cutbacks between this war and Gulf War 1 should have never happened, but did anyway because the powers-that-be were hopelessly naive. With the next conventional (and unconventional) cold war looming on the horizon with China, are they going to be naive again and continue forward with Rumsfeld's "mini-force" philosophies, which generally caused the early fuckup in Iraq?

You may not like this new cold war, you may kick and scream that we shouldn't quietly invest in an air force of F-22's to hold conventional superiority, but that isn't going to stop it from happening.

Last edited by Illuminator; 07-28-2008 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:40 PM  
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Default Re: John McCain's Neverending War

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Worked for it? You are seriously excusing the horribly soft treatment he received in 2000 because he "earned it?" Or am I reading this wrong and you really do condemn the entire practice of allowing personal feelings and bias to sway how a candidate is portrayed?
QFE

You're not supposed to be able to "earn" favorable coverage based on past perceptions any more than you are by offering VIP seating to journalists who "earn" it.

How does a journalist "earn" preferential treatment, anyway?
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:43 PM  
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Default Re: John McCain's Neverending War

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You may not like this new cold war, you may kick and scream that we shouldn't quietly invest in an air force of F-22's to hold conventional superiority, but that isn't going to stop it from happening.
Here's where you confuse me for a liberal. I was against those cutbacks and I'm for a strong military.

I just think it needs to be at the disposal of someone who knows what the fuck they're doing.

Call me crazy.
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:44 PM  
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Default Re: John McCain's Neverending War

Krontak you're such a silly retard.
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:53 PM  
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Default Re: John McCain's Neverending War

Then I would venture McCain has a more practical grasp of the military than Obama, who is evidently "learning as he goes".
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Old 07-28-2008, 02:07 PM  
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Default Re: John McCain's Neverending War

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Originally Posted by Panthera View Post
Worked for it? You are seriously excusing the horribly soft treatment he received in 2000 because he "earned it?" Or am I reading this wrong and you really do condemn the entire practice of allowing personal feelings and bias to sway how a candidate is portrayed?

BTW, the only reason we heard about McCain's "independent appeal" was because his main rival was Bush. It is sometimes hard to spot which candidate reporters like but it is extremely easy to spot the ones they hate.
Reading it wrong. I deplore bias of all types and find it does a disservice to all public discourse. McCain had independent appeal not because he was against Bush but because incidents like in 1998 on a tobacco bill have surprised his everyone by shaming his party on the Senate floor for acting inadequately to combat cigarette addiction and made a point of the government's need to act. he also schmoozed with the press his entire campaign and routinely ran the press out of questions.
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QFE

You're not supposed to be able to "earn" favorable coverage based on past perceptions any more than you are by offering VIP seating to journalists who "earn" it.

How does a journalist "earn" preferential treatment, anyway?
No argument. just making the point of McCain's bias being cultivated verses the anointing of Obama.

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Russia was ready to take up the Soviet mantle at any time and the apparent successor for a decade has clearly been China. The only people who haven't seen that are the people who willfully ignore it. Bill Clinton was well-practiced in that.



He's saying that the cutbacks between this war and Gulf War 1 should have never happened, but did anyway because the powers-that-be were hopelessly naive. With the next conventional (and unconventional) cold war looming on the horizon with China, are they going to be naive again and continue forward with Rumsfeld's "mini-force" philosophies, which generally caused the early fuckup in Iraq?

You may not like this new cold war, you may kick and scream that we shouldn't quietly invest in an air force of F-22's to hold conventional superiority, but that isn't going to stop it from happening.
China was never the successor to the Soviet Union because it lacks the type of aggression the Soviets had. We aren't in a Cold War with China and won't ever be. What is coming is far, far worse than the Cold War because of the muddled market and international economic situation. China has learned it can win wars without firing a shot and intends to press that advantage. The worst part though is the rise of regional powers in such capacity to destroy the near universal morality imposed by the Western powers.

Rumsfelds plans were solid, he was just too stupid to realize when to go with them and when to dump them. He was prepping for a future still likely to come, one of hotspots that need rapid deployments and engagement ability that conventional warfare lacks. Had he not been an ass while SecDef and actually engaged allies both within our government and foreign, Iraq still could have gone well.
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Last edited by Deson; 07-28-2008 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 07-28-2008, 02:21 PM  
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Default Re: John McCain's Neverending War

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Originally Posted by Illuminator View Post
Then I would venture McCain has a more practical grasp of the military than Obama, who is evidently "learning as he goes".
If being a bad pilot and a discipline problem gives one a practical grasp of setting policy and using/not using the military as an instrument with which that policy is carried out, I'd like to know how.
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Old 07-28-2008, 02:24 PM  
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Default Re: John McCain's Neverending War

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No argument. just making the point of McCain's bias being cultivated verses the anointing of Obama.
You're choice of words says otherwise.
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Old 07-28-2008, 02:24 PM  
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Default Re: John McCain's Neverending War

We are absolutely going to be in a cold war with China, and arguably we're already entering a clandestine "information war" with them. You've only seen the early phase with the buildup of conventional forces just to reach parity (but in a nuclear age, conventional proxy conflicts are the name of the game). Soon they'll work above and beyond to accomplish a blue water fleet, to secure oil shipping between China and the Middle East against U.S. Navy interference. To say nothing in all of this about their designs on Taiwan. They're modelling their military as an eventual direct competitor to ours.

And you better believe they'll do what they can to infiltrate Latin America and the Carribean. Because if I were them, God knows if I sure would.

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If being a bad pilot and a discipline problem gives one a practical grasp of setting policy and using/not using the military as an instrument with which that policy is carried out, I'd like to know how.
The President doesn't get to decide when to use the military as an instrument, Congress does.

Last edited by Illuminator; 07-28-2008 at 02:25 PM.
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