Does Russia Really Care What the US Thinks? - Ukraine Next?

stivan · 08-13-2008, 09:27 AM

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

Otis · 08-13-2008, 09:51 AM

Of course they care. Putin and Bush are bros.

Rinion · 08-13-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otis

Of course they care. Putin and Bush are bros.

I heard they get together on thursdays and smoke some awesome dope laced weed.
Then they call up Clinton and take Airforce one to the Secret McDonalds Floating Air base for Big Macs.

They don't take cheeny anymore since the last time he got high he shot that dude in the face.

drychnath · 08-13-2008, 11:08 AM

It would be an interesting time to live in, not good, but interesting, if Russia were to try taking all of the old soviet territories (and maybe a few more) back. With America supposedly at it's military limit with the wars we're already in, and China all buddied up with Russia, who's to stop it from happening? The French? Korea? Russia holds veto power w/ NATO, so no help there. The door looks fairly open, and I doubt that the maps as they stand will look this way forever. All it takes is a leadership strong enough to say "I'm coming, I dare you to stop me" and soldiers with the right weapons willing to back it up. Sure we could nuke, and so could they.

If it comes, who thinks our "all voluntary" military will stay that way? We'll need more soldiers if we want to correct the problem. This could get messy.

Tuna · 08-13-2008, 11:21 AM

Did the US really care what the rest of the world thought when they invaded Iraq?

Meta · 08-13-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drychnath

It would be an interesting time to live in, not good, but interesting, if Russia were to try taking all of the old soviet territories (and maybe a few more) back. With America supposedly at it's military limit with the wars we're already in, and China all buddied up with Russia, who's to stop it from happening? The French? Korea? Russia holds veto power w/ NATO, so no help there. The door looks fairly open, and I doubt that the maps as they stand will look this way forever. All it takes is a leadership strong enough to say "I'm coming, I dare you to stop me" and soldiers with the right weapons willing to back it up. Sure we could nuke, and so could they.

If it comes, who thinks our "all voluntary" military will stay that way? We'll need more soldiers if we want to correct the problem. This could get messy.

Who's to stop any NATO country invading someone? And people wonder why the middle-eastern countries want to develop nukes!! It's not to use them, just to reduce the threat of being invaded the next time they want to put oil prices up.

Your opinion is that of a citizen of an aggressive, warmongering country recently involved in invasion and occupation of another country, indiscriminate murder of civilians and all those other wonderful things. In fact, the USA is about the most aggressive and dangerous country in the world at the moment, by a very very long way. I can't think of another nation which has been as aggressive and violent towards other countries for a very long time.

Russia haven't invaded anyone since the break up of the USSR iirc. There's nothing to suggest they would now. You guys need to stop pissing your pants about Russia beating seven shades of shit out of Georgia. It was a retaliatory strike, it was not an invasion. The instant the French PM got both sides around the table they both withdrew. It's over, and the people of Ossetia are no longer being bombed by the Georgians.

Why the fuck would Russia risk trade-isolation from the rest of the world by invading shitty little satellites with population: 4 men, 6 sheep and a manky cat? The same goes for a long and painful invasion of Ukraine (the only neighboring country that's almost worth invading, but not really). They don't need to. They have a very tight grip on the oil supply flowing into eastern Europe and they make a shitload of money from it.

The fact is, if you want to see where the instability in the world is coming from, look no further than your own fucking doorstep.

Otis · 08-13-2008, 11:36 AM

The truth is, America wouldn't have done anything even if we had our military at the height of its strength.

All this tough talk is is just that, talk.

drychnath · 08-13-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meta

Who's to stop any NATO country invading someone? And people wonder why the middle-eastern countries want to develop nukes!! It's not to use them, just to reduce the threat of being invaded the next time they want to put oil prices up.

Your opinion is that of a citizen of an aggressive, warmongering country recently involved in invasion and occupation of another country, indiscriminate murder of civilians and all those other wonderful things. In fact, the USA is about the most aggressive and dangerous country in the world at the moment, by a very very long way. I can't think of another nation which has been as aggressive and violent towards other countries for a very long time.

Russia haven't invaded anyone since the break up of the USSR iirc. There's nothing to suggest they would now. You guys need to stop pissing your pants about Russia beating seven shades of shit out of Georgia. It was a retaliatory strike, it was not an invasion. The instant the French PM got both sides around the table they both withdrew. It's over, and the people of Ossetia are no longer being bombed by the Georgians.

Why the fuck would Russia risk trade-isolation from the rest of the world by invading shitty little satellites with population: 4 men, 6 sheep and a manky cat? The same goes for a long and painful invasion of Ukraine (the only neighboring country that's almost worth invading, but not really). They don't need to. They have a very tight grip on the oil supply flowing into eastern Europe and they make a shitload of money from it.

The fact is, if you want to see where the instability in the world is coming from, look no further than your own fucking doorstep.

In other words, we had a leader that said "i'm coming, I dare you to stop me". And it worked.

Not only did anyone try really hard to stop us, a whole bunch of nations sent us help afterwards.

And it was messy.

for this situation, If they both withdrew, why are there still Russian military units heading deeper into georgia? Sure they're all diplomatic around the table, but on the ground, the aggression continues. Who's suprised?

Meta · 08-13-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drychnath

In other words, we had a leader that said "i'm coming, I dare you to stop me". And it worked.

Not only did anyone try really hard to stop us, a whole bunch of nations sent us help afterwards.

And it was messy.

You sound like you see the invasions as a good thing. Yes many nations helped, despite massive, overwhelming public objection in pretty much every western European country (everyone demanded a clear reason for why - and nobody got one). It all goes to show that nobody listens to their people.

Ok, invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were a disaster. No objectives were achieved apart from regime change. Islamic extremist terrorism is still rampant. Oil costs way more than it did before the invasion, and the damage to the US economy from what I hear is pretty horrible. Aren't you pissed off about that? Thousands of your boys and girls in the military (as well as from other countries) dead for nothing?

Quote:

for this situation, If they both withdrew, why are there still Russian military units heading deeper into georgia? Sure they're all diplomatic around the table, but on the ground, the aggression continues. Who's suprised?

Yeah I just heard that on the bbc. Something about dismantling Georgian army bases around Gori. But the claim that tanks are advancing on Tblisi are unconfirmed.

The problem is, if all the troops withdraw before the EU gets peacekeepers in there, the looting and crime will be terrible. The joint Russian-Georgian peacekeeping effort cannot possibly work now, and a unilateral Russian peacekeeping operation would look like an occupation. The EU have to stop fucking about and get blue caps in there now.

Jae64 · 08-13-2008, 12:14 PM

and so begins the second cold war. its not so bad tho... creates an equilibrium in the world.