Baring my "soul" - Page 7

Illuminator · 01-25-2007, 01:32 PM

Life imprisonment, death sentence, is there really a moral difference between the two? Sounds like arbitrary bullshit to me. But what I do know is that dead criminals don't escape from jail or abuse their parole.

Triskele · 01-25-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

Do you believe that to be more liberating than for God to know and respond to all of your thoughts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

And the question of course demands to be asked... what of the mute?

To keep my post in it’s original context with the original post:
It was a reply as to why doesn't God help me or direct me when I am about to make a decision for example.... And like I said God does not listen or read your thoughts, they are private "some" believe this, not all.

To address your question of the mute:
Even the vocally impaired have their way of communicating "out loud".

Some practices believe animals go to heaven. It's like I said, "There are two sides to a story (in this case several religions and beliefs) and somewhere in the middle is the truth".

I never have followed anything blindly. I always ask questions and needed proof.

One day I realized that I believe in love. I have no proof of love, I can't see it- it's just a feeling.

It is the same for believing in something that some call "God" by one name, he has many names.

I know there is something greater than us. I just choose not to follow the religions that man has made and corrupted for the sake of "him".
One example: Man and the Catholic Church canonized the scriptures, they chose which ones to make into "the bible", I feel this is wrong, and there are many that never made it into "the bible". They were written - all of them - for us, why keep them from us and only direct us which way "they wanted"? Man again… thinking he is better, knows better. It’s that damn “free will” thing!

Science fascinates me. I love proof of things. My major/minor is in sciences. I consider the likelihood of all things – always have, always will.
I use my free will to explore all possibilities and be open minded.

But my soul knows there is something greater than us and it had a play with all things.

My post was just an insight on “some” people beliefs and for the most part of beliefs I think they make the most sense. I did not go into great detail of their belief, that’s not what the original post was all about. She just had questions and I attempted to give her some direction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rinion

While I enjoyed your reply, it wasn't a anwser to my question. so lets delve one deeper.

Lets say we lived in a society where the punishment for a criminal was left to the victim, or in the case of a murder spouse/next of kin.

So the Judges bring you husbands Murderer before you and after a moment of talking it becomes apparent that he felt no remorse for your husbands death.

Do you sentence him to death, prison, paying Restitution? Or do you just let him go free because you honestly believe it happened for a purpose, that your husband was meant to die, and that the only one to blame was god?

Judging by your previous answer I'd guess you would choose "let him go, because it wasn't his fault. It was Gods"

If things like that happen for a reason and 'its god's fault'. whats the point is laws and consequence? Whats the point of morals? Whats the point of anything? We should all revert, follow our instincts and be controlled by emotion. Because everything that happens Is not our responsibility. its all Gods.

People...
We make our own paths before we leave heaven. We put exit points in our life. We have tasks to complete, a mission so to say while on this earth. We have all we meet in those paths as well. We have goals as individuals and as a society. Yes, living in the USA for example is one of those and according to their laws - it shall be. We influence everyone and vice versa.

It is not Gods fault for anyone dying nor is it Gods fault for anything else.

[Jesus has been scientifically proven to have been on this earth.
He is the son of God? God sent him here?
That is what science has been trying to figure out.

(Ohhhh mind jumps to The Da Vinci Code (book and movie) may be fiction but it does have a lot of fact in the writing, it's good entertainment...check it out. Who knows you might ponder some of the "facts" .]

We all have "free will" and it interchanges with one another.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and that IS science.

We have basic beliefs in all of us. And most of us have "good" in us to guide us...it is our soul. Think about it. When you didn't "listen" to your inner voice (soul) what happened? Bad results? I know mine has been and my friends tend to agree with this as well.
But perhaps you had something to complete by not listening to yourself or perhaps you influenced something / someone greater than you could imagine.
I.E.: you helped them with their path.

There are some in this world that are not like us majority and that is a whole another topic.

Illuminator · 01-25-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triskele

One example: Man and the Catholic Church canonized the scriptures, they chose which ones to make into "the bible", I feel this is wrong, and there are many that never made it into "the bible". They were written - all of them - for us, why keep them from us and only direct us which way "they wanted"? Man again… thinking he is better, knows better. It’s that damn “free will” thing!

They can't just throw any old shit into "the bible". If works seem inauthentic, they don't make the cut. The old leaders of the Catholic Church were religious scholars first, I doubt they were people 100% bent on world domination.

Rinion · 01-25-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

They can't just throw any old shit into "the bible". If works seem inauthentic, they don't make the cut. The old leaders of the Catholic Church were religious scholars first, I doubt they were people 100% bent on world domination.

seriously? do you know how the catholic church was formed and why it was at odds with the eastern Orthodox church?

the Arch-bishop residing in Rome claimed he held authority over the four Eastern Greek-speaking patriarchs, and over the insertion of the filioque clause into the Nicene Creed by the Western Church. He thought he had the right to overturn thier decisions and they refused. so what does he do? Declares himself the Christ on earth and forms the Roman Catholic Church.

It WAS a power struggle.
more info can be found here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East-West_Schism and more can be googled if it really interests you.

Also do you know why catholic priests cant have children? it isn't because they are trying to be like Jesus.

http://atheism.about.com/od/romancat...celibacy_2.htm
"Any marriage entered into by a priest was regarded as invalid and anyone currently married had to separate from their spouses - leaving them to whatever fate God had in store for them, even if it meant leaving them destitute."
"Priests and bishops were not just religious leaders: they also had political power over the people. When they controlled land, which was at the time the basis for any political power, that land could either go to the church or to the man's heirs when he died."

Disputes raised after a priest had died concerning land. the church wanted to retain them, but often the priests spouse or children would lay claim to them. So what better way for the church to control Land then to enforce celibacy on all thier, at the time, land owning priests. No heirs, no claim.

but I don't believe the catholic church added any false records into the bible, I think they simply left some out.

After all before the printing press, everything was transcribed by hand and only the wealthy could afford books.

Triskele · 01-25-2007, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rinion

seriously? do you know how the catholic church was formed and why it was at odds with the eastern Orthodox church?

the Arch-bishop residing in Rome claimed he held authority over the four Eastern Greek-speaking patriarchs, and over the insertion of the filioque clause into the Nicene Creed by the Western Church. He thought he had the right to overturn thier decisions and they refused. so what does he do? Declares himself the Christ on earth and forms the Roman Catholic Church.

It WAS a power struggle.
more info can be found here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East-West_Schism and more can be googled if it really interests you.

Also do you know why catholic priests cant have children? it isn't because they are trying to be like Jesus.

http://atheism.about.com/od/romancat...celibacy_2.htm
"Any marriage entered into by a priest was regarded as invalid and anyone currently married had to separate from their spouses - leaving them to whatever fate God had in store for them, even if it meant leaving them destitute."
"Priests and bishops were not just religious leaders: they also had political power over the people. When they controlled land, which was at the time the basis for any political power, that land could either go to the church or to the man's heirs when he died."

Disputes raised after a priest had died concerning land. the church wanted to retain them, but often the priests spouse or children would lay claim to them. So what better way for the church to control Land then to enforce celibacy on all thier, at the time, land owning priests. No heirs, no claim.

but I don't believe the catholic church added any false records into the bible, I think they simply left some out.

After all before the printing press, everything was transcribed by hand and only the wealthy could afford books.

Tell em Rinion.

NTM all scriptures are meant to be read, not just the ones they deemed for one reason or another. THAT is why the Jews read them and view Jesus as just a man, a wonderful man. But, they are coming around too now.

Illuminator · 01-25-2007, 08:13 PM

I'm not retracting anything I said.

Venekor · 01-25-2007, 09:18 PM

I think some of you might find the book "The God Delusion" very interesting. Its been a new york times best seller.

Talonis · 01-25-2007, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khalan

Re:Free Will.

I think it's an odd concept,

Free Will is never really Free.

I mean Take any Choice one could ever make.

If you make a choice, it is always based on what? Past experience, outcome, morality, any number of factors which will determine which of choice A or B you'll make.

Imagine : A donut is sitting on the table and I need to decide wether to eat it or not.

A myriad of factors will help me decide if I want to consume it. Am I Hungry? Do I like Donuts? Is it too many calories? What Flavour? How old is it? Does it belong to me? Will I get in trouble for eating it? etc etc... I can go on ad infineum with different factors at play on me deciding wether to eat this donut or not.

Now say I decide, Yes I'm going to eat it, well I never really chose to eat it freely did I, I chose based on the factors and questions I asked, therefore my will isn't free it is dictated by the events and factors that came before it.

Now say I decide, I will arbritraily choose, either yes or no, not based on any factors. well voila! we have free will right? wrong. If you arbritraily make a choice then your not really making a choice, your just randomly choosing some outcome out of a list, well thats not "free will" either because you didn't conscienely choose.

While the explanation of why you'd want to eat the donut is sound, I think you are slightly missing the point. Your description of the motivating factors and values that cause you to want the donut are not the end of the example. What if all of your 'criteria of wanting' were no's? The donut is stale. It has some mold on it. It is a flavor you dislike. All of these things go against your personal tastes, preferences, social programming, and survival instincts...

....yet you pick it up and take a bite anyway.

Most people would probably listen to the internal voice that says don't eat it. But each and every one of them has the ability to make the very conscious decision to pick it up and take a bite. You have to look beyond your own programming. It is an easy pitfall to say your convictions are so strong you would never go against them, but free will provides you with the 'other' option.

I couldn't come up with a much better illustration of free will if I tried.