Calthine

Since I started working at Allaakhazam the biggest objection I've heard to the site was our alleged affiliation with the notorious IGE. The 'net gossip had this relationship as just about everything except what it was: our parent company, Affinity Media, owned us both, and that was it. But try and prove that to someone completely convinced, lol.


Anyway, it's now totally irrelevant:

http://eq2.allakhazam.com/forum.html...;num=50;page=1

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Calthine

Don't look at me, I don't work here anymore.
EQ2 Allakhazam Community Manager

LFG

I'm sorry, but it is still far from totally irrelevant, and for two reasons.

1. Word on the street is that Yantis purchased IGE. The three card monte shuffle that eventually became Affinity Media issued shares to Yantis and backed up it's original purchase of mysupersales.com from Yantis with guarantees that remain in effect.

In my understanding, this latest stunt is just another shell game by the same people who still commonly own all this stuff together anyway, for the purpose of attempting to legitimize their holdings and put another level of deniability between themselves and the gold farmers they employ and support.

2. There can be no doubt that IGE, Zam, Ogaming, and Alakhazam were funded and at least recently developed with funds from the secondary MMO market. These organizations were built and became what they were based on blood money from the gold farming industry.

No matter how long and often IGE/Alakhazam/Zam tries to wash those bloodstains from their hands, they'll never come out. And we, as educated people, will not be fooled by these latest parlor tricks and sleights of hand. This is what it is, an asset and organization that was only made possible based on funding from ill gotten gains.

Sorry, but I'd no more use the site than shop in a mafia owned supermarket.

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Snark

can you cite me some references which in any way imply these markets should be taken with such grim opinion

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http://www.break.com/index/sheep-wea...ares-herd.html

LFG

Sure, as soon as they release all the documents regarding this latest transaction to the public, I'd be happy to connect the dots for you.

The point is, they aren't going to do that. I can no more "prove" what I'm saying than they can "prove" that this latest stunt was all perfectly innocent and legitimate.

Unless they publish all the documents connected with this sale, including the names of all the people who were involved in the transaction, the contract for sale and purchase of IGE, and the documents relating to who remains on the hook for what liabilities. If they did that, I'm saying I could link this latest farce together like a paperclip chain.

I'm kind of surprised you would even use the "if you can't prove it, it didn't happen" comeback - this is IGE we're talking about. The burden is not on me to prove this isn't just another sham transaction to make it appear they have again removed themselves or divested from an organization that makes its profits from illegal sources, or at least sources that harm gamers and the gaming industry.

Sorry, but the burden is on IGEKhazam/Affinity/whatever new umbrella corporation their New York attorney registers next to prove this was a legitimate sale and that the Allakhazam website is now completely divested from IGE, not on me to prove my that this is just another reshuffling of what they've done in the past.

They have the documents, and I don't - if what I'm saying isn't true, they can post the transaction documents on the Internet and prove what a fool I am.

And I challenge them to do so.

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Snark

I'm not saying it didnt happen, i just think your language suggests practices a tad more illegitimate and immoral than the likely business transactions that one would expect a multimillion dollar industry to support

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http://heyandy.ytmnd.com/
http://acceptable.tv/videos/769-Cirque-Du-Soleil
http://www.break.com/index/sheep-wea...ares-herd.html

LFG

I'm sorry, I call it as I see it. The secondary MMO industry is an industry within the MMO industry. It violates the license agreements of a MMO developer when it engages in a RMT transaction, with the sole exception of transactions that occur within the scope of SoE's Station Exchange system. All other violations are violations of civil law at least. Therefore, these organizations make their living by violating the law and the rights of other people.

And those transactions that violate the intellectual property rights of developers make the game far less pleasant and enjoyable for me personally. That's because they result in unwanted gold selling tells and PMs in my ingame mailbox. They result in farmers wearing Isle of Refuge gear at level 40 farming instances in Everfrost and ganking named that I may be attempting to get for myself in a lower level zone with an alt. These are people who play EQ2 for a living, unlike me, who play for recreational purposes only. These people cheat professionally.

Why are you wanting to sugar coat this? It's an organization of professional and chronic law breakers who make their living by ruining or at least diminishing my enjoyment from my preferred recreational activity.

Exactly what labels should we put on them Snark? Because I intend to continue calling them criminals - that's right, criminals.

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"Bottom line: we're not all being honest with ourselves here." Become, Kraken forums

Calthine

As far as I know Yantis has no official capacity with Affinity Media.

Yeah, I'm with Snark here. You obviously feel very strongly about it, LFG

edit: I'm not sugarcoating anything. But you're dropping an awful lot of stink on it without documentation. All I'm saying is: Affinity sold IGE. Period.

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Calthine

Don't look at me, I don't work here anymore.
EQ2 Allakhazam Community Manager

Illuminator

Raiding takes up a lot of playtime but not 100% of it. Sooner or later you may find yourself among the "middle class" of the game where there'll be ample opportunity for plat pharmer/sellers to piss you off. At this tiring moment it's easier to wait for experience to be the bitter teacher rather than having to forcefeed lectures over and over again.

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Snark

Illuminator:

So when I think LFG is taking this too seriously, you think I disagree with his language because I don't play enough or don't have enough contact with RMTs? please - I play FFXI and EQ2 a lot every day, and if you think the RMT is bad here its 10x worse there.

I just think using terminology like blood money, and blood on their hands for a quite expected and normal business transaction is quite extreme. You can call them criminals, but how can IGE support offices in los angeles if they are running a business practice you think is equivalent to some mafia ring. The fact is, the majority of the plat these guys make is from players playing the game. I have talked with a plat farmer who could speak a little english as to why he farms (he said he was in china). He seemed like a genuine guy and he played from home (not some sweatshop deal like you hear being thrown around in these types of arguments).

Anyways, all I am saying is my experience and understanding of these industries never seems equivalent to some mafia ring nor does any macbeth analogy apply.

With experience, I can say that targeting these businesses as criminals is not appropriate nor a solution. I think its up to the businesses to be creative and try and tap into this viable market themselves, like station exchange. In 10 years, i would be theres not a single MMORPG that you cant exchange real life money for goods in. Its just too profitable.

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http://heyandy.ytmnd.com/
http://acceptable.tv/videos/769-Cirque-Du-Soleil
http://www.break.com/index/sheep-wea...ares-herd.html

LFG

And all I'm saying is, I agree that Affinity sold IGE. But in a transaction where the same people still own the assets and profits.

If they want people to believe that they sold IGE in a legit arms length transaction where they retained no interest or right to IGE, they would need to prove that before anyone who made it past fifth grade would actually believe it.

This is the exact same sham as before. In the past, when accused of working for IGE, Tamat always responded that he didn't work for IGE, that wasn't true. Ok, technically he didn't work for IGE. He worked for the people who owned both. What is the difference? There is none, it was a shell game involving umbrella corporations, same as it is now.

The burden is not on me to disprove that, for the same reason that I don't have to give criminals the same benefit of the doubt regarding facts and evidence that I would give to people and organizations I know to be honorable.

You don't just get to say "it doesn't count anymore" when you decide to cleanse yourself from past wrongdoing. It still counts, the wrongdoing was still done. And in this case, based on information and belief, the profits, assets and liabilities are all still ultimately owned by the same people as before. They were just shuffled again.

When you take money from criminals, how does that separate you from being a criminal yourself?

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