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  1. #21
    Scito te ipsum Slippery's Avatar
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    Default Re: EQ-Raiders.com Launches Guild Progression Website!

    lol Hourly decay.

  2. #22
    IT'S OVER 9000 gahnand's Avatar
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    Default Re: EQ-Raiders.com Launches Guild Progression Website!

    they should kill the 12:00:00 on all the results. No one cares.

    and i don't understand the point of time decay. if an up and coming guild kills mobs that a previous guild didn't, they shouldn't be ranked lower than them because it happened later.
    Last edited by gahnand; 02-27-2013 at 07:53 PM.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: EQ-Raiders.com Launches Guild Progression Website!

    Verified had to be there for manual kills. Not all guilds will benefit from the raidhub feeds and the SOE data feeds that are being implemented as we speak.

    No scoring system is going to please everyone. It's just not gonna happen. Why? Because everyone wants the most points possible and its just not going to end up that way. If every single guild killed the same mob on the same day no one would ever be different. Pretty soon every little leaguer and school ball player out there will get a trophy and be told he didnt lose.... oh wait...

  4. #24
    IT'S OVER 9000 gahnand's Avatar
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    Pretty sure everyone killing the same mob on the same day is never gonna happen unlike a number 1 guild clearing half the xpac, disbanding and another guild clearing further months later. Only decay that makes sense is kill decay.

    Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

  5. #25
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    Default Re: EQ-Raiders.com Launches Guild Progression Website!

    Well that's what I mean, The first guild to kill a mob gets the most points possible. The kill decay you speak of is how long it takes for the second and third and 4th to kill it. If guilds kill the same mob on the same day but 15 hours apart... or how about this... 2 raid guilds start raiding at the exact same time. One kills the first mob in zone after 2 hours, Worldwide first, the second guild kills the first mob, World wide Second 4 hours later. Should they both be ranked the same? IMO, i dont think so. There has to be a point difference.

    What we are currently debating internally is a smaller point bonus for easy mode mobs and a higher point bonus for challenge mode mobs all with a slighly less kill bonus modifier. How it decays is what we are discussing as well.

  6. #26
    IT'S OVER 9000 gahnand's Avatar
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    Default Re: EQ-Raiders.com Launches Guild Progression Website!

    has nothing to do with how long. Not to mention that different guilds have different raid times. Just use an order+kill decay. Going off the top of my head, but I think this is the formula I used:

    Mob Base Points = x
    Kill Decay = 10
    Order Decay = 1
    Min Mob Points = y

    First Kill:
    Guild 1 = x points

    Second Kill
    Guild 1 = x - 10 points
    Guild 2 = x - 10 - 1 points

    Third Kill
    Guild 1 = x - 10 - 10 points
    Guild 2 = x - 10 - 10 - 1 points
    Guild 3 = x - 10 - 10 - 1 - 1 points

    This depreciates the value of the mob at the same time so the easy mode shit becomes completely irrelevant very quickly. And then of course you just have a minimum points value. I'd probably do a spread of x = 1000, y = 100.

    The reason I chose a 10 to 1 ratio of kill decay vs order, is because of how bad guildprogress skewed the shittier kills and how much it annoys arabel.

    Naturally, there's no reason for the order to have a spread greater than 1.

    Then again, my engine is mod-based so ultimately moderators (similar to the eq2flames progression post editors) can rearrange based on what makes sense and not whatever the engine comes up with.
    Last edited by gahnand; 02-27-2013 at 08:21 PM.

  7. #27
    IT'S OVER 9000 gahnand's Avatar
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    Default Re: EQ-Raiders.com Launches Guild Progression Website!

    oh and i guess i should clarify by min mob points. that number is the minimum the decay can be reduced to. so effectively only the first 99 guilds that kill it will get any points for it (after enough worldwide kills to reduce it to that level -- which is why you might adjust x and y depending on how many guilds still play the game). after that the mob becomes irrelevant (0 score for killing it).

  8. #28
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    Default Re: EQ-Raiders.com Launches Guild Progression Website!

    gahnand I like your system, but that really just replaces decay over time with an decay over # kills.
    That allows 2 guilds to take down a mob (and yes, the raid times differ so Revelations would always get first kill, and Equilibrium lesser points).
    A guild 9 months later kills it and receive nearly the same value as the first 2 kills. That's great for reformed guilds catching back up.
    What Slippery is saying is he wants the same points awarded for a fixed time duration.
    Day 1:
    First Kill: X points
    Second Kill: X points
    Day 2:
    Third Kill: x - decay
    Fourth Kill: x - decay
    Day 3
    Fifth Kill: x - (2 * decay)
    On day 1 there are 2 blue ribbons, they're all scored the same.
    Comparing systems:
    Kill Decay = distance between values (a constant)
    Order Decay = distance between kills
    That's equivalent to time, but doesn't let time determine the order decay multiplier.
    Using time you "date" content by relevancy. Over time all guilds get stronger, and the kills
    become more trivial.
    We're open to these ideas - the point is to make something that's relevant.
    --Mecrab
    In the spirit of George Carlin - You're not a loser, you're just the last winner.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: EQ-Raiders.com Launches Guild Progression Website!

    There are kills currently on EQ-Raiders that are submitted incorrectly when compared with the SOE Data Feeds. A few guilds killed content after midnight making the kill the 27th but they were submitted on the 26th just prior to midnight. That is actually based on the feed time from SOE. Those feeds if used on an automatic system would be unchangeable, so the whole arguement over decay and same day kills would be irrelevant considering some of data is slightly compromised. This means the Day1 - Day2 theory would still work against some people and you still run into the issues of different timezones and different parts of the world. Unless everything defaults to one specific time zone no one will find a happy medium on the decay rate since we all do not live in the same place on the planet. So there needs to be some concessions made regarding the level of decay and the way points fall off over time. We can't adjust everything to appeal to everyone.

    This is why the WOWprogress formula is seemingly the most fair. With a .1 negative point adjustment every hour for 180 days its enough to seperate but not kill a guilds points that kills something on the same day but just a little behind another guild.

    Here is my simplistic solution that is of my own personal opinion right now, I havent discussed it with Mecrab yet (...get in ventrilo man!! lol) The only other thing I can suggest is that kills begin to decay after 24 hours from the first registered kill time of the first mob in a given category. This gives guilds in all territories time to get into new zones at their typical start time and get the most points after 24 hours is every guild for themselves. Time would still be recorded, but the points would be the same to any guild that kills the those mobs in a new zone for those first 24 hours.
    Last edited by Praetorian-EQ; 02-28-2013 at 01:01 AM.

  10. #30
    Scito te ipsum Slippery's Avatar
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    Default Re: EQ-Raiders.com Launches Guild Progression Website!

    24 hour clock, not 12 hour on mouseover.

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