Another Spell Consolidation Thread

[Kurazao]

Originally Posted by Pinski

Uhh, 4500/15=30

huh?

[Slix]

Think you need to buy a calculator calaglin 4500/15 = 300

[Widem]

Originally Posted by Slix

Fae Flames is nice but do some math
250 proc * 6 people = 1500dmg
1500dmg * 3procs = 4500dmg

15s recast (with 5 AA) / 4500dmg=300dps for the group

300dps groupwide / 6 people = +50dps per person

this isnt a big or even noticible effect. and considering only 3-4 people max would actually use this on a melee attack in a average grp, mabye 6 if its an all scout group.

Turning the spell into a group proc even boost it to 15% chance would be better imo.

This spell "LOOKS" awsome but after math shows it gives +50dps a person with 5 AA invested...seems like crap and a waste of AA to me...the only benifit of this spell with 5AA is to have a 1s cast time benifical spell to proc infusion but, shriek, hib, abolishment (5set bonus) all do the same and if your casting more then 2 infusion procs in a row you are ignoring the refresh of normal nukes and dots which is bad.

It doesnt need to be a con buff, but this spell sucks ass and needs a revamp

im not sure how your fae pyre works but...

fae pyre procs on average for my group at 450 per proc

450 * 3 * 6 = 8100 every 16.5 seconds 1sec cast 15sec recast .5 sec recovery

thats 8100/16.5 = 491/6 = 82dps per person or 491 raid dps

in addition my infusion averages for a total damage amount of 420

420 * 6 = 2520/16.5 = 152.72

thats 255ish personal dps which does fluctuate a little bit depending on crits but on average thats it right there.

as for everyone not being able to melee. the vast majority of this game is spent in melee range im talking at least 99% when encompassing everything even casual contenet. As for raiding im in melee range 90% of the time as well in addition to all my mages. Everyone gets use of this ability. Another huge plus of its current version is that when you actually have to joust you can cast it and get a guaranteed 3 procs in a short time duration for when players need to joust back out in addition to your 2520 damage you are getting from infusion.

as far as which spells you are using to proc infusion you keep bringing up the set bonus bringing down the casting speed to 1sec.
Seriously just think about this:
Option A) cast a spell with a 1 sec timer and 20 sec recast to proc infusion. and not leave myself open to a group cure if need be. In addition you must sacrifice gear slots in order to just recieve a set bonuse b/c helm sucks, boots suck, gloves suck, wrists suck, shoulders suck. In order for me personally to recieve that bonus i would be sacrificing 2%spell crits, 2% heal crits, up to 75 damage, up to 30 healing, and a small debuff proc. These are items that everone can get, things like the Blessed Direvine Mantle, Armguards of Ancient Rituals, V'rin's Hide Gloves, not some uber avatar gear.

Option B) Put 5 points into fae pyre that has a 1sec cast 15sec recast does the same as group cure but adds 82 personal dps in adition to a total 491 raid dps. you are basically sacrificing what 2 points in emergency heals? and 3 points in "well crap i dont really have any good places to put these". I didnt even mention the fact that you can proc fae pyre just shy of 4x a minute where group cure is just shy of 3x a minute.

[Slix]

I am basing my Fae Pyre dmg off the spell not after raid debuffs, lets face it yes top end guilds can debuff the hell out of a mob but fae pyre isnt going to always be procing during an acive debuff and I am taking into account mid range raiding furys who wont have excellent debuff rotations to help them.

Anyway 50-80 dps on a raid member where scouts are 2K+, mages are 3K+ and we are 1.5-2K isnt alot. Ask any scout hey do you want agitate or vim or 80dps...the answer is very clear people dont care about this spell, and thats the issue with it, fix the spell.

lets face it trash dies so fast now you would be lucky to get more then 1 fae pyre cast in, and named mobs, I have better things to do then eat aoe's for a melee proc since the cure changes. Yes there are trash named and hard named that you can get a decent amount of procs off on. But they make up about 10% of your total raid encounters that you would fight in a week.

Yes I use 5 set (mayong helm / avatar shoulders) I havent seen many if any alernate item drops yet that I would use.

Do I blow my Grp cure on a important fight...no but lets count...curor(dt), Woushi(eh), Shredder (fth) yep thats about it mabye Fear too, so 4 named in a whole expansion where elem/nox is needed eveything is arcane or trauma in EoF so who gives a dam if I use it...its 1s for me. Between hib,and shreik, and abolish I have 3 proc spells for infusion and I get 2 procs in before i rotate back to my normal nuke rotation so 2 of these 3 spells is always up.

Yes I do have AA in my emergency heals...I am half healer to so why not spend AA on them...the do bring the spells up a fair amount.

Come on widem just say it...i know you can its not hard...repeat after me... " Fae Prye sucks it needs some revamp loving."

[Widem]

Originally Posted by Slix

I am basing my Fae Pyre dmg off the spell not after raid debuffs, lets face it yes top end guilds can debuff the hell out of a mob but fae pyre isnt going to always be procing during an acive debuff and I am taking into account mid range raiding furys who wont have excellent debuff rotations to help them.

Anyway 50-80 dps on a raid member where scouts are 2K+, mages are 3K+ and we are 1.5-2K isnt alot. Ask any scout hey do you want agitate or vim or 80dps...the answer is very clear people dont care about this spell, and thats the issue with it, fix the spell.

lets face it trash dies so fast now you would be lucky to get more then 1 fae pyre cast in, and named mobs, I have better things to do then eat aoe's for a melee proc since the cure changes. Yes there are trash named and hard named that you can get a decent amount of procs off on. But they make up about 10% of your total raid encounters that you would fight in a week.

Yes I use 5 set (mayong helm / avatar shoulders) I havent seen many if any alernate item drops yet that I would use.

Do I blow my Grp cure on a important fight...no but lets count...curor(dt), Woushi(eh), Shredder (fth) yep thats about it mabye Fear too, so 4 named in a whole expansion where elem/nox is needed eveything is arcane or trauma in EoF so who gives a dam if I use it...its 1s for me. Between hib,and shreik, and abolish I have 3 proc spells for infusion and I get 2 procs in before i rotate back to my normal nuke rotation so 2 of these 3 spells is always up.

Yes I do have AA in my emergency heals...I am half healer to so why not spend AA on them...the do bring the spells up a fair amount.

Come on widem just say it...i know you can its not hard...repeat after me... " Fae Prye sucks it needs some revamp loving."

this wasnt about whether or not i think it needs to be buffed. this is about whether or not it needs to be moved to a conc. slot as a group buff with some % chance to proc. do u realize how much of a nerf that is?

fuck basing it off the spell, i dont care how much it reads for i care how much it actually does.

your rotation is apparently wrong. even with the reuse earring i can get 3 infusion procs off and without it im holding member in hand after 4.

and you gear selections are no mystery. you have through and through bled for resists which do absolutely jack shit. do u realize u are giving up 3-4slots of good gear just so you can proc something for 2500damage every 21.5sec when you can get the same result only better in 16.5 second. i mean seriously, its so retardedly obvious, its right there.

moving that shit to a conc slot would seriously piss me the fuck off bigtime. it would be a nerf splain and simple all around the board.

[Slix]

My example of a con slot buff is nothing more then an idea, Im just expressing idea's for different forms of the spell. The 5% was just an random number hell make it 33% like syn, or make it proc for 1K dmg, anything other then what it is...it sucks as is...any change to the spell would be an improvment the only reason you care about the spell if for an infusion proc. If there was NO infusion you wouldnt give a shit about this spell or the AA's spent on it. So stop bitching about side effects and look at the topic of what we discussing....Fae Pyre and how it the spell works and how we want to see it modified if we could.

Yes mathmatically I can get 3 procs in, after i account for spell lag, reaction time I can get 2 casts in easy if I go for more then I will be ignoring a recast of bolt or a dot. Bottom line my spell rotation with low lag zones is about 2K single target so my spell rotation cant be that bad.

Yeah I like resists, yes they do make a difference, not a big amount but they do and on guk.. i have not seen any alternate gear items drop like the 2% crit leather glvs...so until they do Im using 5 set, you got them yay grats to you *golf clap* but this isnt a gear thread. You say spend 5 AA Here to get a 1s cast spell, I say you can wear these items to get a 1s cast spell...these are options nothing more.

Bottom line is (infusion aside) this spell sucks and this thread is about consolidation and desired spell changes. I want to see Fae Pyre turn into something that makes a scout go "Hmmm tough choice....agitate or fae pyre...tough choice, or Ooo I love fae pyre pls cast it more"

Lets face is 80% of furys are in caster heavy groups...caster dont melee or care enough to run up or pause casting to proc this...I want this spell to make raids thing...Hmm fury in mage grp or scout grp...tough call they have good buffs for both...and right now that doesnt happen. So stop bitchin me out over an idea and either add your idea's or shutup.

[boli]

Fae fyre POS... I cast it pre pull but other than that doesn't get used. I quite like the idea of turning it into a spell proc but the casttime is so ruddy long. :/

[Widem]

Originally Posted by Slix

My example of a con slot buff is nothing more then an idea, Im just expressing idea's for different forms of the spell. The 5% was just an random number hell make it 33% like syn, or make it proc for 1K dmg, anything other then what it is...it sucks as is...any change to the spell would be an improvment the only reason you care about the spell if for an infusion proc. If there was NO infusion you wouldnt give a shit about this spell or the AA's spent on it. So stop bitching about side effects and look at the topic of what we discussing....Fae Pyre and how it the spell works and how we want to see it modified if we could.

Why would i only care about the infusion proc? I get more raid dps from fae flames than i ever would from procing infusion off of fae pyre. That plus the recent fix to fae pyre AA has made it freakin sweet and i get more raid dps from fae pyre than any other spell i cast. I'm not sure how thats overly under powered but if you wanna jack the proc chance up to 1k thats fine and great, just makes it better. That seems to be what u want.

As for the comment about if there was no infusion i wouldnt want this. First off sorry to beak it to you but we DO infact have infusion. Thats like asking me if id want energy vortex if i didnt have any damage spells. Of course i wouldnt b/c id get no use outa the ability. Second, ok lets assume there was no infusion at all. That just cut about 4 seconds out of my personal rotation so i pretty much have 4 seconds of downtime...hmmm fae pyre anyone?

Yes mathmatically I can get 3 procs in, after i account for spell lag, reaction time I can get 2 casts in easy if I go for more then I will be ignoring a recast of bolt or a dot. Bottom line my spell rotation with low lag zones is about 2K single target so my spell rotation cant be that bad.

You know what i completely believe u can and i know its completely possible. Thats why i felt saying that you could get 2 in was a poor representation.

Yeah I like resists, yes they do make a difference, not a big amount but they do and on guk.. i have not seen any alternate gear items drop like the 2% crit leather glvs...so until they do Im using 5 set, you got them yay grats to you *golf clap* but this isnt a gear thread. You say spend 5 AA Here to get a 1s cast spell, I say you can wear these items to get a 1s cast spell...these are options nothing more.

your right this isnt a gear thread, but your whole arguement for not using fae pyre is based upon YOUR GEAR SELECTION. That being the point gear IS completely relevant. What are you going to do next tier? Use you t7 set gear so you can get 1sec off your group cure? Of course your not. The reasoning as a whole just doesnt work out.

Bottom line is (infusion aside) this spell sucks and this thread is about consolidation and desired spell changes. I want to see Fae Pyre turn into something that makes a scout go "Hmmm tough choice....agitate or fae pyre...tough choice, or Ooo I love fae pyre pls cast it more"

My scouts and mages already bitch at me for not casting fae pyre. With its current setup you dont have to choose who to put fae pyre on at all, everyone can get it. As far as casters not utilizing it. Thats pretty much to their detriment. Its easy to walk inbetween at least recovery time in order to get into melee range and get an xtra 80dps. sounds like a pretty smart idea to me.

Lets face is 80% of furys are in caster heavy groups...caster dont melee or care enough to run up or pause casting to proc this...I want this spell to make raids thing...Hmm fury in mage grp or scout grp...tough call they have good buffs for both...and right now that doesnt happen. So stop bitchin me out over an idea and either add your idea's or shutup.

See this opens up a whole new can of worms when it comes to overall priest balance. Priests are pretty balanced as is in that there is not one class that is undersireable for a raid. Shit look at an inquisitor. If we can be an optimal mage and scout buffer for an entire group of each we have basically just made them obsolete, we sure as hell can dps and heal better why not buff better, and in addition just nestled ourself a good spot for the OT group. That really isnt balanced at all.

Originally Posted by boli

Fae fyre POS... I cast it pre pull but other than that doesn't get used. I quite like the idea of turning it into a spell proc but the casttime is so ruddy long. :/

1 second isnt really that long. depending on how your group is setup or gear selection it will either be the fastest or 2nd fastest group spell u can proc.

as far as the debate on how much of a waste 5 AA is in fae pyre your not missing anything.

Animalism line:
3 carnal mask (everyone knows any more regen for hp is retarded)
(5seasoned predator) (5 Primal spirit) (5 agitate) (5 fae pyre)
look you can even put (1 animal form)

crossover from energy line into (5 feral pulse) yay emergency heals are maxed

Energy Line:
(5 swarm) (5 thunderbolt) (3tempest) (5 starnova) (2 ring of fire)
(1 energy vortex)
---------------------

i know this isnt an AA thread but was completely relevant to the conversation b/c AA specs were brought up.

You are not missing anything important here what so ever.


Further adressing the thread. Its no secret i think the whole spell consolidation idea is a shortbus approach to gameplay. in addition i see only 3 spells that could possibly be consolidated. Bestial Feast, Maddening Swarm, and Barbarous Intimidation. Puting them together is fine. Not because it will make it easier or better, but becaue 3 useless debuffs put together equals 1 giant useless debuff. All three of those need a complete rework and overhaul so i really dont see it as a consolidation then. I see it as them taking away 3 useless abilities that people dont cast and giving us 1 that actually will do something.

[Widem]

As for an idea slix...

it seems (and tell me if im wrong) that one of your bigger issues that you have is that you want versatility between being able to buff melee dps and mage dps.

im am entirely wary of consolidation of group buffs for fears on conc slot contradictions lack of customization for single target buff, possibilities of easier zerging, BUT if this change were to go through I could see justification in making your group buffs take 1 con slot then moving agitate to a conc position.

with this you could have flexibility while offering decent buffs for any class offensively

optimally you could group buff everyone and in addition vim/agitate 4 of any class in your group thus giving u that veratility you desire.

[vetcer96]

Furies will always hold the the role of Utility Healer. They are the only heal class that can be put into any raid group and beable to adapt to the groups makeup.

And with that being said, I dont beileve there should be a real consolidation of the spells. Maybe some revamping is required (Beastial Feast and Carnal Mask).

My 2 cents worth.......