Another Spell Consolidation Thread

[Goozmania]

I'm being trendy and making a thread here to discuss this, with my thoughts, as few as they may be.

Intimidation + Swarm + Feast combined into one ae debuff that lowers agi/wis/casting skills and procs a regen/str/sta buff on the group when any mob in the encounter dies.

Tho it would be pretty cool if they made the effects more useful than they currently are. For example, instead of the crappy regen/str/sta, make it a ~20% melee/spell crit buff that lasts for 10 seconds.

Combining Elixir and Salve into a single heal with the same # as salve (or more, whatever), but 3 seconds off the recast would be cool. (Who uses salve anyway? ffs it's a shitty heal)

And I'm gonna tack on some opinions to make this thread longer.

Fae Pyre: Should proc off spells + combat arts
Bestial Feast: See Above
Killing Swarm: Should do like 50% more damage than it currently does
Tempest: 25-50% damage increase thx
Carnal Mask: Replace the crappy regen component with a groupwide deaggro (9-15% non fighter? I duno) Still fits the defensive/supportive nature of the spell, but is actually worth a shit
Ring of Fire: Hopefully gets an upgrade in RoK that does at least 200 more damage per tick
Call of Storms: Should be a pet like Ring of Fire that randomly shoots at mobs, like it currently does

And some AA opinions lulz

Thunderstrike or whatever (CA in the INT line) should be a spell, not a combat art
Wisdom and Stamina lines still both suck.
Calm Animal (second in AGI line) should be replaced with some kind of combat art... OR put charm animal in the second spot and make the third skill a temporary buff of some kind for charmed pets.
Str line suggestions: replace natural boon with melee crits; replace the end line ability with what natural boon was at rank 8; replace the warden's 75% crit aa with a +crushing/slashing and a proc ability.

And a final note for those who are like "wtf furies don't need more damage"... When Mystics can do over 2500dps in the same quality gear and group setups as a Fury doing 2700-3000, there is something wrong. Maybe all 6 healers need to be nerfed to some degree (if that happens Furies will need some huge loving in other areas), or maybe Furies need more love; but that's pretty lame.

Awww that was fun. Just a bunch of random shit that's been on my mind

[Widem]

When pertaining to the topic of spell consolidation I see this as a reason for them to try and get us to cast some of our less than desireable spells.

Gooz hit it right on the head with Barbarous Intimidation, Maddening Swarm, and Bestial Feast. The problem is that combining them will not make them more desireable to cast in any way shape or form.

As it currently stands Barbarous Intimidation is so useless it would be better to cast the thermal shocker instead b/c it will increase raid dps by more. Maddening Swarm as an ability does absolutely nothing(this is not an exaggeration the abilities it debuffs has absolutely no application for raid mobs) its only purpose is that its a hostile encounter AE and can be used as means to proc for damage. Beatial Feast in and of itself is a complete paradox of fury use/role in a raid setting. Beastial Feast is great for pickup groups with minimal gear and poor composition. Think about this for a second. We are primarily a mage buff oriented class with room to buff 1 melee class. Yet we have this ability that increases str/stam with a small regen after the mob is killed. For a pickup group made up of people with very low str and more melee classes it can be useful especially when doing group heroic content but in the end game the actual use of it is to diminishing. Taking my 1 bring and moving his str from 1000 to close to 1100 doesnt do anything and then is wasted upon everyone else and if your not constantly killing something the debuff is wasted.

Putting all these debuffs together doesnt really give any incentive to cast them more often, they will still be used as an encounter AE in order to utilize procs.

Why are these so crappy?

Diminishing returns were desinged after these spells were designed and were simply never changed. Maddening Swarm used to be a power drain and PvP bitched so it was nerfed.

I would opt to not have Elixer and Salve combine because i do use both frequently, i very much like to choose where i heal and at what amount and speed, also one thing m sure u didnt think of or possibly not aware of: by combining these spells into 1 more powerful one that we can basically cast more often opens us up to use the splitpaw spell bounty of the virtuos for that spell icon slot so we will still have 3 direct heals.

Fae pyre should most definately proc off of hostile spells and ranged attacks as well.

I think 20% melee/spell crit for bestial feast is way to overpower but a step in the right direction for making the spell actually useful.

As for personal dps when a priests zonewide is 75% of dps class's zonewide you know somethings wrong. The dps changes for priests were made solely for the casual player who complained about how it wasnt fair how long it took for them to solo as a priest. I feel we are pretty close to being balance at this current time dps wise to other priests when looking at the overall class's effectiveness. We need some very small improvements. Increasing tempest and killing swarm i do not believe are the answer, where as call of storms needs to be fixed and i think would be completely reasonable to do so.

Carnal Mask is indeed retarded for the regen portion. Unfortunately every fury should be in the group with the mages and thus the troub which almost caps deagro by themself so another 9-15% would pretty much equate to 6% if they already didnt have on a piece of gear already giving them a deagro. BTW why TTR degro priest item is pretty much shit for us.

thunderstrike being spell not a CA = not really that big a deal neways. infusion is insanely awesome for furies, ill let wardens have another CA.

the AGI line should straight up be a summon animal line just like the shaman pets. It doesnt need to be the same maybe buffage according to what our roles are random utility procs chances AE avoid deagro group by 2000 just stuff like that.

Theres no way we need 75% melee crits. First off just htink about the proposition of if this were to hold true raid buffed id have 82%melee crits and 56% spell crits at this point in time. That realy doesnt even make sense. Not to mention you will basically be competing with another spec gear wise. At that point you will want every stat but wisdom.

[Goozmania]

Originally Posted by Widem

I would opt to not have Elixer and Salve combine because i do use both frequently, i very much like to choose where i heal and at what amount and speed, also one thing m sure u didnt think of or possibly not aware of: by combining these spells into 1 more powerful one that we can basically cast more often opens us up to use the splitpaw spell bounty of the virtuos for that spell icon slot so we will still have 3 direct heals.

Word, I didn't think of the splitpaw thing. But Wild Salve is typically all of 1-2% of all my healing, and even on mages it has shown itself to be obsolete (even they have too much HP for it to matter)

I think 20% melee/spell crit for bestial feast is way to overpower but a step in the right direction for making the spell actually useful.

My justification for that would be it only lasts 5-10 seconds, and can only proc when a mob in the encounter is killed. So on single targets, which are still the majority of the raiding game, it's worthless unless you are pulling multiple encounters. If it were coupled with the other 2 debuffs into an ae, tho... then perhaps it's too much. It would end up being a permanent buff once the first mob died.

As for personal dps when a priests zonewide is 75% of dps class's zonewide you know somethings wrong. The dps changes for priests were made solely for the casual player who complained about how it wasnt fair how long it took for them to solo as a priest. I feel we are pretty close to being balance at this current time dps wise to other priests when looking at the overall class's effectiveness. We need some very small improvements. Increasing tempest and killing swarm i do not believe are the answer, where as call of storms needs to be fixed and i think would be completely reasonable to do so.

I just can't agree when Mystics, who ward, have the best debuffs, better armor selection (f mystics wearing leather btw), and have more desirable buffs can reach 80% of a Fury's dps using 20% the power. If it's intended for all priests to be doing such similar damage (it isn't), then Furies need better buffs and debuffs.

Carnal Mask is indeed retarded for the regen portion. Unfortunately every fury should be in the group with the mages and thus the troub which almost caps deagro by themself so another 9-15% would pretty much equate to 6% if they already didnt have on a piece of gear already giving them a deagro. BTW why TTR degro priest item is pretty much shit for us.

With the Soothing Saranade nerf down to 34%, that gives room for a Fury to make up for the rest so the coercer doesn't have to... lulz. That was why I thought of that. If they upgrade Soothing Saranade in RoK tho... /shrug

thunderstrike being spell not a CA = not really that big a deal neways. infusion is insanely awesome for furies, ill let wardens have another CA.

It would be nice to have a .5-1 second cast nuke that works with the spell crits in the same line imo

Theres no way we need 75% melee crits. First off just htink about the proposition of if this were to hold true raid buffed id have 82%melee crits and 56% spell crits at this point in time. That realy doesnt even make sense. Not to mention you will basically be competing with another spec gear wise. At that point you will want every stat but wisdom.

I don't see why not, really. It's the same thing Shamans and Clerics get (would actually still be less). I think that or the increase in damage on our DoT's would put Furies back up where they belong, in regards to DPS... this 'fix' would probably be better than increasing our damage spells, because Wardens would benefit also (and god knows they need a benefit right about now)

Wardens, Templars, and Defilers who are interested in DPS currently have to work up both STR and INT to maximize it. We'd end up being in the same boat.

I have to add something here

[Widem]

as for the power of wild salve it self you have to realize we have been using that as our lesser heal for over 2 years now as it was designed for people with t6 fabled vs. t6 mobs. this is actually one major reason SOE is changing the spell updates to 10 lvls instead of 14. People were bitching on the offcial forums about how the same thing was going to happen to their group heals. I'm certain this will be adressed through the powerfulness of the new spell in t8 and it will no longer be the case. In addition when u see the changes to BoE you will see a massive increase in usefullness of that spell in particular. You will easily see its power increase by 50% while retaining that fast casting component of the spell.

As for the upgrade to bestial feast, we can agree it needs to be reworked but we are not going to agree on the 20%crits portion unfortunately.

As far as mystics go. I wouldnt so much say they have more desireable buffs. I dont think either of our dps groups which is half the raid would want a mystic over me or the inquisitor. Also mystics and furies have completely different heal styles. You cannot throw a mystic in a dps group and have them heal through lots of AE damage. they just really arent that good at group healing. and as far as the MT group is concerned you would want a defiler there for sure. So really they are only optimal for an OT group. Its just the niche they have found. Mystic dps is so based around gear/buffs that its tough to decide this late in the expansion what an appropriate dps output is going to be for them. In the OT group his best scenerio is going to be Zerk, Dirge, Bruiser, Mystic, Templar, Assasin/Swash. If hes pulling 2500 consistently in that group id seriously dont beleive it. in that group i dont see him pullig over 1200zw. Of course if you give him a nice group set up he will be doing 2500 but so can a dirge.

I did forget about the nerf to Soothing Serenade...but i will tell you i am not a fan of capping anything whatsoever from just the use of group buffs. I think it limits the capabilities of itemization and handcuffs the developers ability to make truly unique items and allow for people to customize gear according to their situation. With that being said i could see us getting something like that there as long as it didnt bring it to more than 8-10% from teh cap.

now that im thinking about it thunderstrike does have a magic portion i think. i never use the CA so cant remember. or remember if that portion is governed by spell crits.

[Slix]

Some good points made but may as well charm in with my 2 cents,

Debuffs: First we need to look at the fury theme to better understand these spells. furys role was to increase the damage ability of the grp/raid vs the mob...it was our theme so we need to keep that in mind.

Feast: designed to increase stats used to do more dmg STR
Swarm: stun/stifle to prevent casts (defensive)
Intimidation: lower wis and agi, this is to make mobs have less resists and dodge attacks less.

Now spells changed alot since when these were made...back in T5 there wasnt mit / resist debuffs (very very few) same goes with feast...there wasnt any crits or double attack back then more str = more melee dmg back then.

To consolidate I would think more of Feast / Intimidation = Decrease mitigation of mob vs physical, heat, cold by X amount would be better choice to fit with the fury theme.

Swarm is fine as an AoE debuff stun/stifle perhaps add a + grp 1K resist for its duration, this would keep with its spell damage reduction theme without imbalancing it to much without the dumb - to casting skills.

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Group Con Buffs:

Hunt and Primal are fine as is.
Mask yeah grp regen is dumb, since a tic is 6sec this doesnt really do much but when compared to other priests this is a core setup 1 stat buff, 1 resist buff, 1 mit buff since we are low on buffs in exchange for dps I dont expect any big changes here...if they made primal and hunt 1 spell all effects the same and 1 con slot i would be happy.

But if we had to choose a secondary effect for mask....i would prefer a + mana regen over a +hp regen. hell why not make it 1% crit bonus instead. That would stay with the whole fury theme of +dmg
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Nukes:

Tempest: I wish there was more elementals so the double ticks would matter more. I would be better if mabye it was setup like Fray, did the double tic's if mob below 50% HP and single tic's above 50%

Killing Swarm: The damage is fine and it does have the defense debuff added to it. A small base % increase would be nice but i would be happier if they just left it the same and made the tic's 1s instead of 2s.

RoF: yeah its cool as is...keeps it duration thats fine...please make it a 1s cast time instead, other then that just scale the damage up to the new level and im happy with a casting time redux on it.

CoStorms: OMG where to start...get rid of the CHANCE TO HIT from the whole spell. Then this would be an AOE dot spell...and with its damage i would be fine with the stun componet since it will hit all the time (normal resists are fine, the random chance to hit gone).

Bolt / Nova fine as is...scale with level to new T8 versions

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Single / Temp buffs

Sprit of the Bat: scale the mana regen, agi, mana up T8 version should be 80 agi, 50 regen, +400 mana

Agitate: Fine as is...with the 5AA its really nice and mana melee classes and reproc this buff before the 1st proc expired, adds decent effect, fine as is (Group agitate would be cool but WAY OVERPOWED)

Fae Flames: With all of our + int buffs we boost mage dps alot with that alone, so some scout loving buffs is fine with me. I would like to see it moved to a 1con grp buff with 5% chance to proc on attack. ( proc on attack would work for melee + ranged) Now when compared to syn and blade chime this fits in pretty well with current proc effects.

I dont want to see heals consolidated...thats dumb....its like making 2 nukes into 1....does fix anything just dumb.

We cant judge what the new heals will be value wise but I would like to see. Why not think outside the box....add -200 threat from target non-fighter to the salve spell. This adds alot of value to the spell.

The way I see it for T8

Fighter 20K raid buffed
Salve =2K heal
Elixier = 4K heal
Bloodflow = 6K total regen amt
Fray = 2K high / 4K low

[Saphira]

Spell consolidation is most likely coming.
Debuffs:
Like the idea to consolidating them all into an encounter debuff.

Feast needs to be redesigned make it % mellee crit + hp amount sounds much better than a straight Sta/Str buff. Keep the heal.

Swarm: A stifle would be way overpowered as an encounter debuff specially for how long it lasts. Unless it has a chance to break on damage. Then would it drop the entire debuff consolidated or would just the stifle break?. Just thought of it having a chance deleveling the encounter for 5seconds every time the encounter uses a spell or combat art. (Not usable on epics). Would be very unique for a player class. Would be better if he somehow deleveled before using the CA or spell and then re-assumed his original level. IMO it is how the spell was supposed to be.

Intimidation: -Agi/Wis on a mob does almost nothing. Reducing resists and mit would increase the effectiveness of this spell but other classes already do that. No idea how to keep the same theme and make it useful without making it a resists/mit debuff though.

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Group Con Buffs:

Hunt and Primal are fine.
Regen on Mask is useless. There is a tank item that drops in EH that increases any heal on target by a certain amount of points. (Forgot the name of it and Xanadu is down.) Add that to the group buff so anyone in your group getting healed has an additional amount of healing added.

Hope they will use less conc slots.

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Nukes:

Think most of the mare fine except for Call of Stunned. Any change to it would probably be good.

One easy change to it is to make it uninterruptable and only stifle you so you can run and mellee with it on. Have it guaranteed hit 5 targets (targets still get chance to resist) every tic would also make it more usable.

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Single / Temp buffs

Yes Spirit of the Bat needs to be upgraded but I think we will get that soon. No need to consolidate unless it is made caster only.

Agitate: Good buff. Not sure if they will actually upgrade the dps and haste on this as they are % buffs. The stats will need to be upgraded however. No need to consolidate this buff.

Fae Flames: I like hitting my buttons but consolidation is coming so making this a group perma proc buffand consolidating it with the other group buffs sounds like a good idea. The base damage needs to be increased though if it is going to remain a mellee only proc.


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Heals:

Originally Posted by Slix

The way I see it for T8

Fighter 20K raid buffed
Salve =2K heal
Elixier = 4K heal
Bloodflow = 6K total regen amt
Fray = 2K high / 4K low

All our single target heals with the exception of bloodflow are currently t6.

Current heal number average(base).
Salve = 667 heal
Elixir = 1184 heal
Fray = 795 high/ 1587 low


Using your numbers Fray would have to heal to be around the ratio it is now.
Fray = 2.5k high/ 5.5k low

If you want to do the actual math though you are welcome.

[Slix]

Originally Posted by Saphira

If you want to do the actual math though you are welcome.

Thanks, Ive been trapped in a hotel room out of town all week so i dont have my eq2 to reference

[Widem]

Originally Posted by Slix

Killing Swarm: The damage is fine and it does have the defense debuff added to it. A small base % increase would be nice but i would be happier if they just left it the same and made the tic's 1s instead of 2s.

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Fae Flames: With all of our + int buffs we boost mage dps alot with that alone, so some scout loving buffs is fine with me. I would like to see it moved to a 1con grp buff with 5% chance to proc on attack. ( proc on attack would work for melee + ranged) Now when compared to syn and blade chime this fits in pretty well with current proc effects.

my biggest thing with killing swarm,and im not sure if this is what you are getting at, is that it refreshes before the dot expires. In most cases with other classes the dot has such a long duration its used to just cast on another mob and effectively have many dots runing everywhere but here the discrepincy is like just over 1sec. and i always lose my final tick or even sometimes the last 2 ticks. I think that for this spell in particular the recast and the duration should really be equal even after considering AA builds. Its kinda just fucking annoying. After the BoE change ill be spamming the crap out it though b/c mine will essentially be ticking for bouble damage on the first tick.

DO NOT MAKE FAE PYRE A CONC BUFF FOR THE LOVE OF GOD THAT IS ALL I ASK.

this spell alone if all i do is auto-attack and as most furies are infusion spec'd, and if at this point you arent fae pyre spec'ed your pretty much retarded contributes to about 220-280dps losing this would be a huge nerf to personal dps and a huge nerf to group dps. Not to mention at a 5% proc rate it wont be procing 11.5x a minute it is now and further more you would be sacrificing a lot as in a conc slot for some shitass 5% proc chance for 300damage.

[Slix]

Fae Flames is nice but do some math
250 proc * 6 people = 1500dmg
1500dmg * 3procs = 4500dmg

15s recast (with 5 AA) / 4500dmg=300dps for the group

300dps groupwide / 6 people = +50dps per person

this isnt a big or even noticible effect. and considering only 3-4 people max would actually use this on a melee attack in a average grp, mabye 6 if its an all scout group.

Turning the spell into a group proc even boost it to 15% chance would be better imo.

This spell "LOOKS" awsome but after math shows it gives +50dps a person with 5 AA invested...seems like crap and a waste of AA to me...the only benifit of this spell with 5AA is to have a 1s cast time benifical spell to proc infusion but, shriek, hib, abolishment (5set bonus) all do the same and if your casting more then 2 infusion procs in a row you are ignoring the refresh of normal nukes and dots which is bad.

It doesnt need to be a con buff, but this spell sucks ass and needs a revamp

[Pinski]

Originally Posted by Slix

15s recast (with 5 AA) / 4500dmg=300dps for the group

Uhh, 4500/15=30