Beef with Spell Consolidation - Page 2

gungo · 08-17-2007, 12:14 PM

I can see consilidation working on some abilites.
Most buffs can be consolidated.
Most debuffs can be consolidated.
Some atks that do less damage then a melee's auto atk can be consolidated.
Some nukes that take a long time to cast yet does very little damage can be consolidated.

Basically consolidating spells/arts that most classes rarely use because its not worth casting.

Things will change undoubtably. Will it be better or worse? probably both. Will it really change much of anything, not really.

The problem with spamminess is not the number of abilites. Because choice is not spamminess. It is the type of abilites. Most newbs or the people who clicked on the spamminess tab when they left eq2, probaly feel spamminess because they don't see the ability as anything but anothe rbutton to smash when it is no longer grey.

So how do you fix that? Well you could work on the HO wheel instead making the type of ability matter in the sequence you perform them.
Maybe even create certain combinations like the monk combination AA. Which does an extra atk for using a certain sequence of atks.

Change certain abilites maybe by consolidating them so that certain spells, combat arts are worth actually casting occasionally. Maybe even create some short duration buffs or abilites that encourage timed and thoughtful use. Abilites like CoB, PoM, Elemental vestment, Knockout combo, goading assault, Traumatic swipe, reinforcement, dispatch, fanaticism, etc. Short duration abilites that make classes excel or make others excell when they are cast.

Make resists matter and allow classes to debuff resists Ala eq1. With classes casting malo, tashani, dispatch, etc. Make it so classes work together better. Some of those ideas might parlay the problems of spamminess, better then just combining spells and leaving in large amounts of downtime.

Dynamo · 08-17-2007, 12:18 PM

Spell Consolidation is retarded!
All soe is trying to do is make it so people that play there classes good and people that play there classes bad even out.

Or maybe the botters were complaining that it was to hard to run 5 other toon at the same time, so soe wants to help them out.
Spells are fine, leave them alone.

Savanja · 08-17-2007, 12:19 PM

I always disliked EQ1s combat system. As a shaman, I had a couple damage spells, a couple of DoTs and a whole lotta buffs. Combat was exceedingly long, so I pushed a button..waited..pushed a button..waited..pushed a button..waited. etc. This didn't make things better. It made it slower and less interesting. At least with more spell options, I can customize how and what I cast and I am required to pay attention somewhat. In EQ1, I could lower my window while in auto combat in between spell casting read an IM, respond, and open the window back up and still be golden.

Malcom · 08-17-2007, 12:24 PM

What is SoE doing for the player base that thinks more complexity needs to be added to class rolls. Im baffled as to why they would reduce CA's/spells at this point. EQ2 has a slightly more spammy feel compared to EQ1, but I love this feel. If im not pushing some buttons im gonna get fucking bored. end of story. make my jobs easier at raids and groups and you can bet im gonna get even more bored and closer to quitting. make fighting harder, not easier.

Steelbadger · 08-17-2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinkfinger

Have you played any other game other then EQ2? I mean role play multi person games?

there is no spell spamming like the amount in eq2, and some of the combat systems and abilities are more advanced.

I will go back to eq1 again. Thats way more a "hard core" game you have 9 spell gems, at one time. the combat system there is better, its harder and it requires more strat and timing.

Less spamming does not mean a dumber easier game. really one can easily make the agreement the opposite is true.

no you don't loose options you don't loss flexibility. Why? cause the buttons you do have become way more valuable and do more when you hit them. Timing matters more now. Mess up and miss hit a button your screwed with the longer timer and power consumption. Really go to eq1 look at the newbie section there is a post there about eq2 vs eq1,,though a week old so you may have to look. they are over at eq1 cause eq2 combat is "to much button spamming and childlike and to easy"...

I think you just been conditioned by eq2 that somehow spamming buttons means skill

Where did I ever use the word "hardcore", where did I ever bring in other games? What do other games have to do with it? EQ2 is not EQ1 is not WoW is not Guild Wars is not Vanguard. If people are spamming buttons in EQ2 and feel that that is all they are doing then they have not taken the time to learn how to play well.

What does it matter what other games I may or may not have played? The game in question is EQ2, I am an EQ2 player and the combat in EQ2 works a certain way. Not the same way as in EQ1, nor WoW nor any other game you might care to mention.

Loss of abilities is a loss in flexibility, you say it isn't but don't say why. Bigger booms do not equate to flexibility. Sorry, but its the truth.

Timers are not longer, if you look through the info we currently have the spells will be cast at the same casting speed as the longest cast and the duration will be that of the longest duration I believe.

Let me say again, I could not give a stuffed goat what people who don't play EQ2 think. If they like EQ1, well, they can play EQ1, if they like WoW they can play WoW. This game is EQ2, I play it because I enjoy EQ2, NOT because I enjoy EQ1.

Steelbadger · 08-17-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

It's actually a well-documented phenomenon known as Choice Paralysis. Again, my view is that consolidation should be done to tighten up the combat interface and make it clearer to a player what s/he is expected to do. Eliminating redundant spells without shortening the recast times of others, in order to impose anti-spam dead time on everyone, isn't the route I endorse. Consolidation is IMO a good idea but I believe Aeralik may have the wrong motive. Either that or he hasn't fully clarified himself yet.

Most of the suggested changes only reduce class spells by 5 or 6 at most and don't necessarily transform any class.

I far prefer to have choice, after playing my assassin for god knows how long I am quite happy with my ability to make snap decisions on the fly. I'm sure you can too. If an add turns up I'm sure you alter your plans instantly to take account of that fact. When I see any two skills up at once I know which is most economical to hit first. No delay.

I don't need help, I can do most fights without even engaging my brain.

Alania · 08-17-2007, 12:46 PM

I played a chanter in EQ1. When I didn't have to mez (which alot of raiding involved crowd control.... I miss those days!) I had two damage spells and one debuff. So I would /assist, hit debuff, hit dot, hit nuke, wait for recast, hit debuff, hit dot, hit nuke, wait for recast..... OH MY GOD! IT WAS HORRIBLE!!!!!!!

That wasn't skill. It was a test of patience. And let me tell ya, when someone said "OMG Lets start a rune chain" I wanted to just die of pure boredom. I didn't even look at the fights when i did that, I stared at a wall, hit rune, waited for it to come up again, hit rune again, and I could talk to my friends in tells the entire time, because it was just that hideously boring.

gungo · 08-17-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinkfinger

Have you played any other game other then EQ2? I mean role play multi person games?

there is no spell spamming like the amount in eq2, and some of the combat systems and abilities are more advanced.

I will go back to eq1 again. Thats way more a "hard core" game you have 9 spell gems, at one time. the combat system there is better, its harder and it requires more strat and timing.

Less spamming does not mean a dumber easier game. really one can easily make the agreement the opposite is true.

I think you just been conditioned by eq2 that somehow spamming buttons means skill

I played hardcore in eq1 and eq2 for a long time (and a bit of wow/swg). I will tell you this. Eq1 strategy in most cases is done before and during the initial pull, after the debuffs and positioning is controlled it becomes a basic hack and slash mostly auto atk event. I do however miss the agro control, some crowd control (in raids), and resist mechanics of eq1.

Odinn · 08-18-2007, 03:41 PM

EQ2 is a spamming game. That is the nature of the game, if you want to change the way the game plays....re-write it. A few spell consolidations will mean nothing in that regard.

The only thing that this will do, is make us wait longer between spells, and it opens up the potential of bad side effects from Spell Consolidation (ie - less procs or more aggro)

Cure consolidation does change game-play for healers, the current cures have nothing to do with spam....because those you don't spam...you CHOOSE. You change that, and you remove any thinking that was there.

razieh · 08-18-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alania

I played a chanter in EQ1.

Stop stealing images from Icewind dale!