Game Balance made by me - Page 5

Ishbu · 10-20-2006, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xopher

"Swashbuckler - Still have inferior debuffs compared to brigands, but with brigands not being immune to ae's they should do a decent chunk more dps."

I actually had to make an account here just so I can get someone to explain this line to me. I realize all of Dissolution has had a hard on to get AR nerfed but come on, now you are giving it mystical swashy oppression powers as well??? If anything AR getting nerfed will lower Swashy DPS. I'm not saying that AR isn't overpowered but I'd rather see your suggested Ranger fix and maybe give something like AR to swashies...i think swashy debuffs may be a lot more important with the combat changes and keeping a swash in at melee range may prove extremely useful. In all honesty I think the best rogue solution would be for Sony to not be lazy and actually stop and think of ways to make encounters challenging other than using an AE.

As a whole, yeah most likely everyones dps may drop slightly if the brigands on the raid arent skilled enough to joust an AE, but in relative terms, a swash compared to a brigand will gain dps because the brigand will definitly lose more because of the AR change than a swash will because they will suffer the same losses from debuffs as well as lost auto attack jousting that the swash has always dealt with.

The brigand will still have far superior debuffs so the swashbuckler naturally should be doing more dps. They are now and that gap should widem with the AR change so I really do think swashbucklers are where they should be. Hell my first alt is a swashbuckler so its not like I dont know how they work.

Draydin · 10-20-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishbu

As for defilers, come on LFG. You know damn well your an overpowered super healer. I have a lvl 70 defiler too you know. Ive played an inquisitor, a mystic, and a warden. Defiler just makes everything that much easier. They are as uber as healers come.

Wardens, I said a little better healing because right now furies just sort of own them in that department.

I agree that Defilers are nearly always in the top three on a heal parse, but so are the furies (if they are healing instead of dps'ing). What's really depressing is that a fury can still get in the top 5 on the heal parse, and parse like 1000dps.

Not really having any debuffs to maintain is likely a big part of that.

We're damn good healers, but super healers? I'd give that title to the furies.

Xopher · 10-20-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishbu

As a whole, yeah most likely everyones dps may drop slightly if the brigands on the raid arent skilled enough to joust an AE, but in relative terms, a swash compared to a brigand will gain dps because the brigand will definitly lose more because of the AR change than a swash will because they will suffer the same losses from debuffs as well as lost auto attack jousting that the swash has always dealt with.

The brigand will still have far superior debuffs so the swashbuckler naturally should be doing more dps. They are now and that gap should widem with the AR change so I really do think swashbucklers are where they should be. Hell my first alt is a swashbuckler so its not like I dont know how they work.

I guess I still don't understand (unless you mean relatively) how a nerf to Brigands will raise Swashy DPS. Brigands having AR doesn't do anything to a swashy. In all honesty I really don't think either of the rogue classes is out of line DPS wise. Sure they will both peak into t1 on certain encounters but I always thought that was part of being t2......it doesn't mean you'll always be second best just that you will be most of the time. And if your rogue is always parsing ahead of an assasin then someone is slacking.

And you also say that the Brigand has better debuffs, but will that still hold true after the combat changes??? I hate SoE's approach to balancing things instead of making changes over a period of time and seeing how one change might affect things, they wait and wait then make a bunch of sweeping chnages all at once. I think a more scientific approach to class balancing would benefit the customers immensely.

Ishbu · 10-20-2006, 07:17 PM

It wont raise the swashbuckler, but it will lower the brigand. That makes swashbucklers look better in the comparison of the two rogue classes. Right now because of the ability to be completely immune to AE damage a brigand has far superior debuffs to a swashbuckler and their dps on any mob with an ae is pretty damn close if the not the same (especially if its single target). Essentially you would be better off with 2 brigands in every raid than one brigand and one swashbuckler and I see that as a problem.

With AR being changed I am thinking (hoping?) that the dps brigands lose from having to joust ae's and/or from getting hit by ae's puts swashbucklers high enough ahead to compesate for the inferior debuffs.

And to draydin - Fury dps is all well and good but defiler is so much more than wards and heals. No healer can buff as well as a defiler can, not even close (sorry mystics but its true) and defiler hp buffs are second to none as well. Combine that with some powerful wards and they are definitly a world class healing class.

Soiscealai · 10-20-2006, 10:14 PM

Templars actually buff slightly more health, but at all master 1 buffs i think its only something like 10 more. However i agree, with defilers buffs, debuffs and wards it makes them the top healing class.

Draydin · 10-21-2006, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishbu

It wont raise the swashbuckler, but it will lower the brigand. That makes swashbucklers look better in the comparison of the two rogue classes. Right now because of the ability to be completely immune to AE damage a brigand has far superior debuffs to a swashbuckler and their dps on any mob with an ae is pretty damn close if the not the same (especially if its single target). Essentially you would be better off with 2 brigands in every raid than one brigand and one swashbuckler and I see that as a problem.

With AR being changed I am thinking (hoping?) that the dps brigands lose from having to joust ae's and/or from getting hit by ae's puts swashbucklers high enough ahead to compesate for the inferior debuffs.

And to draydin - Fury dps is all well and good but defiler is so much more than wards and heals. No healer can buff as well as a defiler can, not even close (sorry mystics but its true) and defiler hp buffs are second to none as well. Combine that with some powerful wards and they are definitly a world class healing class.

Touche... I still want to do 1.5k dps though

Cadi · 10-25-2006, 01:15 AM

I play a level 70 raiding warden. To be honest, it is not our heals that our lacking, usually I am pretty even with a fury in that area. I think that it is our buffs that need to be looked at. We are supposed to be the "defensive" druid. I see no reason that anyone would ever take a warden over a fury any more. So basically what a warden brings to a group is wisdom, some agi, and healing...... While furies offer Fae Pyre, healing, Agitate, and about 300 more dps than us. So while furies get multiple offensive spells/buffs.... we dont really get anything that would define us to be the defensive druid.

Manyak · 10-25-2006, 01:46 AM

druids definately need better defensive buffs, end of story.

shamans get HP buffs, temps get mit/stoneskin buffs, so shoudnt druids get like....avoidance buffs or something? oh wait, they do....but that means SHIT vs epics.

Xlrate · 10-25-2006, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manyak

druids definately need better defensive buffs, end of story.

shamans get HP buffs, temps get mit/stoneskin buffs, so shoudnt druids get like....avoidance buffs or something? oh wait, they do....but that means SHIT vs epics.

for 3 more weeks

Thelounge · 10-25-2006, 03:52 PM

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Monk - Changing haste caps in EoF as well as some tanking mechanics should help, hard to evaluate until those are brought live.

I think we need a better debuff, or our some if not all of our stuns/stifles should work on epic mobs. Haste might help dps of a raid some but still not enough to warrant using a monk over the one bruiser the guild might already have, yea I know some guilds have only a monk or sometimes both, yadda yadda...

The change to tanking mechanics is nice, but like you said hard to evaluate till live, and knowing them it is hard to be optimistic.

Quote:

Dirge - Utility class with amazing utility, doesnt need to change.

Troubadour - See dirge

I think the bards should have their dps upped a little, but other than that I agree completely.