Raid Main Tank Group set up...Which Chanter is better?

KFizzle · 10-24-2006, 01:16 PM

I have a question ... I know i'll probably get eaten live with "We only use two healers" and crap like that, but I am hoping SOMEONE Will answer this for me.

I am trying to figure out the best way to make the MT Group work on our raids, we are short on healers more often than not, but what we are short there with we are in abundance with Utility (4 Bards and 2 chanters). Right now as it is, we normally rock Me as Zerker tanking, A Dirge, Inquis (no templar, but i like any extra DPS i can get anyway), Shaman (used to be a Mystic but he just left, we have two defilers, one of which will take the place), a Fury, and we usually use the Coercer to round out the group.

So my question is this, whats better in the MT Group and why, a Coercer or an Illusionist?

I should probably ask them ... but i want opinions that arent jaded by feelings of "I dont want him to lose his spot because of me", or "I want to take his spot." So any feedback is most appreciated. I know some of the coercers stuff, the hate gain, teh DPS mod, and mana regen... i think they also have a proc like Illuisionists they can put on me, and illusionists who also have the Haste mod, and they give me some kinda resist but i forget what. It's there I start scratching my head and not knowing specifics.

KFizzle · 10-24-2006, 01:18 PM

Just thinking, this is probably better for the combat discussion board...i suck. Ahh well.

Malachani · 10-24-2006, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KFizzle

So my question is this, whats better in the MT Group and why, a Coercer or an Illusionist?

Coercers are usually picked for a few reasons. The first being the hate gain spell they have, single target in group only. Second being they have one additional power regen compared to Illusy (its a power tap/int debuff combo, ticks for 36 every 6 seconds for 24 seconds at Adept3, recast is i think 48? or 60? I can't remember at work) and I don't believe this one counts against FT cap (as it doesn't change your FT number when it is cast, but it is feeding you power). Plus the DPS buff, because generally you don't have Inq in there with their own dps buff.

I'm not all that schooled on Illusy spells, but I know coercer's dps buffs are not castable outside group, but their hate redux (link) spell is. Each dps/link costs one conc, and the link is a 22% hate redux at master, and includes a 100% proc if the person with it on should get hit (small amount of damage, attributed to the coercer).

(and OMG, my 1000th post!!!)

Anarke · 10-24-2006, 02:02 PM

Both classes have their advantages, but in the end it only comes down to one thing. Aggro. MT group's are centered around two primary focuses. One is obviously buffing the MT and having enough healing power to sustain him. The other is aggro.

Like Elanie said coercors have an extremely nice aggro spell. Enraging Demeanor, 49% additional hate @ m1. Coercors also have mana flow which will give 10% power to target when the spell ends and channel which evens out the groups power.

That being said the best way to build your MT group depends on what you are fighting. However the group of Warden, Templar, Defiler, Coercor, Dirge is the primary MT setup most guilds use.

KFizzle · 10-24-2006, 02:23 PM

HA!!! i've been saying i prefer a Warden for the extra wis cause it helps my resists ... but our raid leader prefers the Fury for their Urchin thingy (I guess wardens dont get it, honestly my knowledge of classes really is limited to tanks and Mystics...not all tanks but like Warriors and Brawlers, plus Mystics...outside of that i only know a bit.)

Lord Pantz · 10-24-2006, 02:42 PM

Coercers 4 hate 4tw.

And yarr always take a warden over the fury in the mt group.

Sapphyre · 10-24-2006, 03:01 PM

For trash mobs & easy raid zones, the best setup I've experienced is MT(Zerker, better AE hate), Templar, Defiler, Assassin (or Swash...basically whoever is parsing higher, can depend on single target vs AE mobs), Coercer, Dirge. That is the optimal group setup to maximize the DPS in your raid without the MT losing aggro. Having three hate feeders is extremely valuable.

For named/tougher encounters, the best setup I've experienced is MT(Guard/Zerk), Templar, Defiler, Fury(or Warden...I have many reasons on the fury vs. warden, lots of factors, but I dont think the Temp/Defiler are as interchangeable with their counterpart), Dirge, Coercer. I think this is a pretty normal setup.

For orange encounters, the best setup I have experienced is a MT (Paladin), Templar, Defiler, Fury(or Warden), Brigand, Coercer. You have to have a very good pally & brig to be successful with this setup, but the hate that the paladin can siphon off of the brigand + the coercer hate is unbelievable. I would have never believed it until I experienced it myself, he didn't even have a chance to lose aggro to any of the DPS. And no, the DPS does not suck, it is DPS that can normally and easily pull over 20k on raid situations.

Snark · 10-24-2006, 03:14 PM

coercer

Kisy · 10-24-2006, 03:16 PM

As of late our MT group has been

Guardian
Warden
Defiler
Templar
Coercer
Dirge

HATE - O - MATIC

The illusionist has been in a dps group for the power regin. On Sunday though we had an odd thing 3 chanters --- it was sweet!

Just my expierence.. not much --- but its what I have to offer

KFizzle · 10-24-2006, 03:17 PM

Honestly we've never had near 20k DPS (highest we ever hit was just over 15 i think) but i rarely lose agro on anything ... We used to run with the Zerk, 3 healers, Dirge and Crusader (SK), and i didnt lose agro then ... with the Coercer hate gain i dont think i've lost agro once even on 'adds.' But thanks the concencus choice is teh Coercer then.