Illuminator

The concept of DPS tiers was at least an attempt to be rational. Right now we have a steaming cauldron of "WTF" and every dev just keeps throwing in more carrots and worn boots.

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80/140 Wizard, 80/140 Illusionist, 80/140 Warden, 80/128 Troubador, etc.



HA HA fuck you, Roger. And don't vote for Obama.

Ily

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Because I don't say it, don't mean I ain't thinking it
Next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away
I know what I said, now I must scream of the overdose
And the lack of mercy killings...

Illuminator

MOOORRRE?!

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80/140 Wizard, 80/140 Illusionist, 80/140 Warden, 80/128 Troubador, etc.



HA HA fuck you, Roger. And don't vote for Obama.

hcre

I got to page 6 and had to stop.

My summary of the first 6 pages; it started with an OP that had a couple decent criticisms (antonica and commonlands aren’t as nice as darkwood, but I kind of liked the city 1 to 10 zones after the revamp of them). Then it quickly got out of hand by what appeared to be a bunch of folks who prefer WoW over EQ2.

And god damn did they make some crazy claims.

Combine classes? Why? For the most part there already is only 12 classes, each one can just be specced two slightly different ways. Variety is a bad thing? Those fucktards have the collective IQ of a chamber pot.

My favorite was the people who said raiding was so much better in WoW. Just because you need 80 people to do a raid does not a better raid make IMO. Really, if you are just about the hardcore raiding EQ1 is the game for you, especially if you think zerg is better.

And I had to laugh at the people who implied WoW had more fluid leveling layout. I realize it has been a long time since I gave WoW a try, but I recall killing the same thing over and over with no options to kill something else until I leveled up, at which point I got to move to the new area and kill the same thing over and over. I think the Southpark parody of WoW really drives that home about WoW when Cartman calculated they had to kill the exact same mob several million times to get high enough level. EQ2 has always had more options than that, and they just keep adding even more options.

EQ2 has its flaws, sure. But what draws me to it is that I can switch between casual and hardcore and not get left in the dust like EQ1, and it gets an expansion just about when I start getting bored.

I must say though, the little bit I read about the warhammer MMO does interest me.

Pinski

To your first point, if you don't think this game doesn't need classes combined then you haven't looked at how fucking un-unique the classes are in this game. Oh boy, look at the 2 Shaman, 2 Enchanters, 2 Warriors, 2 Brawlers, 2 Rogues, 2 Bards, 2 Sorcerers, 2 Druids, 2 Clerics. Oh boy, look at how fucking similar all these sets are. Oh, if there's already "12" classes, then why not just remove them and put them as 12. Then use limited AAs to make each player more unique on their own with their own choices, and thus you may only have "12" classes then, but instead you end up with more because people can spec however they want to get whatever they want.

2nd point, WoW raiding requires 25 people. Wait a second, that's exactly 1 more person than EQ2, so you're a fucking moron for saying your entire blab about 80 people. Also, I think the bigger thing about WoW raiding that people like is the fact that it's more scripted and the encounters are more varied and not the same thing over and over again(which is what EQ2 is, the same encounters over and over and over again).

3rd point, you're retarded. You know why in that Southpark episode they killed millions of that same mob? So they wouldn't get PK'd. As for more fluid leveling? Yes, WoW has that because of quests, you can fluidly level up just doing quests without doing very much of just mindless grinding on mobs(which is the easiest way to level up in EQ2).

Oh, and before you say I must really like WoW, no I don't like WoW that much. I'm not a fan of the combat system at all, nor the game really. But seriously, if you want to start spouting bullshit, expect people to prove your bullshit completely wrong.

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hcre

So let me get this straight. Your argument is because there already is 12 classes with just slight variations, they should just go ahead and make them 12 classes. Why again?

Using your logic why stop there, there is really only 4 classes, why not just combine all the classes into 4 classes? It would reap the same benefits as combining 24 into 12. Hell why not go all the way and just make one class and let people chose AAs to make themselves unique.

Seriously, what exactly is the benefit of combining the classes? Everyone knows that every good assassin chooses the same AA lines, so does every good ranger, and every good every other class. You think if you reduce it to 12 people will behave differently? No, they will still choose the exact same AA lines to go down, thus making no variety. I see absolutely no reason to combine the classes. The best reason given is so they can add more unique classes. What exactly is stopping them from doing that now?

Must have changed, when I played 40 person raids was the norm and some went to 72.

You are telling me that WoW is both more scripted and more varied, two mutually exclusive traits, and I am the fucking moron?

I’m retarded? Sure there are quests in WoW, sure they were what you did to level, but it was the same quest over and over again, go kill 10 of mob x, grats now go kill 10 of mob x again. I’m not trying to be a fanboi here, but it is possible to level to 70 with adventure xp turned off in EQ2. You get all your xp from quests that way, and it really doesn’t take that much longer. The fastest way to level is to combine quests with killing in EQ2, which IMO is how it should be. If you think quests are more fluid and immersive in WoW over EQ2, either they changed WoW completely or you are a few French fries short of a happy meal.

Sound advice, have you considered possibly following your own advice?

Dants

You're an idiot if you can't see the line drawn for professions from oversimplification (1 class type) to overcomplication (24 class types).

I mean shit, let's take it all the way and only make 1 class and everything else is AA's according to you.

The reason why people would choose different AA's than everyone else is because you could do things like having end AA abilities be key spells of classes.

Take the Bard class for example.

An end AA line could be Alin's (34% group deaggro) and another end AA line could be Aria's (52% proc of hostile spells) or you could do something different and have more complex trees for the AA's where you'd have to work your way down to those abililies. So you'd have bards who were tailored for mage groups (troubadors), some who are a mix of a troubador and a dirge, and some who are defensive and melee oriented (dirges).

This would add a lot of versatility and create more hybrids of the same class which would be a good thing.

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Dant, 70 Troub
Dantz, 70 Templar
Dants, 70 Necro

Crabbok

12 classes rather than 24... Honestly I like the sound of that.
Open up 1 or 2 more AA trees, do a GOOD combine of the powersets, and you could have a winner. Maybe a GENERAL aa tree that every class gets, then perhaps an Archetype tree that each archetype gets, perhaps even an Allignment, or starting city tree. With an abundance of AA options, I think players would be satisfied.

in fact, players MIGHT be more than satisfied. I can only imagine the glory of my bruiser getting Tsunami!

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hcre

There was a game that tried pretty much exactly what you are describing, it was called Asherons Call 2 and was a spectacular flop.

Frogweiser

That reminds me of the bug in Asherons call 1 where you could perch yourself above high level mobs and pick them off with ranged attack, basically power leveling yourself in a couple of hours.

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80 Guardian (R.I.P. Berserker) (R.I.P. Frogweiser)