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10-04-2007, 02:40 PM
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Re: Everquest 2: What the Shit edition
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Originally Posted by Illuminator
Hmm I fail to see your argument Mr. Flaming Homo.
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Not an argument, Mr. Fucking Moron, but an interrogative. Exactly why do you want those fucking WoW losers posting whiney bullshit threads on eq2flames? |
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10-04-2007, 06:41 PM
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Visitor
Character: retired
Guild: retired
Server: Kithicor
Posts: 54
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Re: Everquest 2: What the Shit edition
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Originally Posted by hcre
So let me get this straight. Your argument is because there already is 12 classes with just slight variations, they should just go ahead and make them 12 classes. Why again?
Using your logic why stop there, there is really only 4 classes, why not just combine all the classes into 4 classes? It would reap the same benefits as combining 24 into 12. Hell why not go all the way and just make one class and let people chose AAs to make themselves unique.
Seriously, what exactly is the benefit of combining the classes? Everyone knows that every good assassin chooses the same AA lines, so does every good ranger, and every good every other class. You think if you reduce it to 12 people will behave differently? No, they will still choose the exact same AA lines to go down, thus making no variety. I see absolutely no reason to combine the classes. The best reason given is so they can add more unique classes. What exactly is stopping them from doing that now?
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Every good assassin chooses the same AA lines because a limited set of options all designed to do one thing - improve DPS - is going to have some that increase DPS more than others. If there were fewer classes, each class could afford to have more depth to it, and with depth you can have options that don't strive to improve the same goal.
Buffing classes are excellent examples of this. We currently have a mage-buffing bard and a melee-buffing bard. Slap them together and make a single bard with the option to improve or pick up melee or mage buffs and they have mutually exclusive options.
Most of all, I think combining classes would bring down some of the barriers to people who can't raid. If more people could raid difficult content SOE would make more difficult content for us to raid. This is a good thing. Most casual types are in a guild to hang out with folks and can't participate in more difficult raids because they don't have the right classes and aren't willing to be as draconian about recruitment as the system requires them to be in order to succeed.. Having more depth to the classes in a way they can respec lets people adapt to fill their guild's needs. Today if you need something new, even within the same class, you kick an attendee out and replace him with what you need. |
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10-04-2007, 08:38 PM
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Regular
Character: Pitty
Guild: Allure
Server: Najena
Posts: 568
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Re: Everquest 2: What the Shit edition
lol some of them have no fucking clue.
__________________
"Futures made of virtual insanity" - Jamiroquai
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10-05-2007, 11:59 AM
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Do you realize
what you said?
Character: Hcre
Guild: Order of Valor
Server: Crushbone
Posts: 83
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Re: Everquest 2: What the Shit edition
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Originally Posted by kyros
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Originally Posted by the hiram key
It's kind of funny how history repeats it self in some ways. For instance, in EQ1, they used to not include all the patch notes (where the term stealth nerf comes from) and now in EQ2, they are sliding down the same slippery slope. The patch notes used to be very good for EQ2, say less then 5% of the changes going in were not documented, but now ? I swear to god, the "changes not in patch notes" are coming close in length to what they are actually telling us.
Not only that, but they don't bother to clearly explain WHY they change things. They throw out these dogshit changes like the one to status items, and leave us scratching our heads trying to figure out what the goal of the change is (to prevent powerleveling a guild is the most likely reason) and once we have that, we then try to figure out why this shitty change, was the one that won out over all the rest. Clearly (and we have covered it with them) there were several far better solutions to the issue, why this one was used is a mystery.
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i remember reading patch notes that used to say EVERYTHING... heck they even used to actually show up when i clicked the button on the patcher. now i usually get stuff from 2 updates ago while i sit for 5 minutes as it downloads something new. when i do get to read them, there's never any explanation. they used to explain why something was being changed, and even used some humor. not only were they informative, i found them entertaining and interesting. it's an unfortunate and sad trend. bring back the patch notes, end stealth nerfage. |
I am glad you brought that post up, that poster was/is completely clueless.
He rambles on about how they stealth patched the changes to status items, probably read the thread about it here. But unless he plays on test (where stealth nerfing is to be expected to some extent) it is a complete fucking lie.
From the LU38 patch notes:
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Originally Posted by LU38 patch notes
Guild Status Items - When selling guild status items, guilds now only advance via sales of level-appropriate items. Members of higher level guilds can still sell lower level items for personal status gain.
- There is now a text description at the bottom of status items that tell you what level guild will gain advancement from selling those items. Generally, items found in the nearest 10 level range will continue to advance your guild. (E.g. A level 50 guild will be able to gain advancement from level 51 items and higher, which drop from T6 creatures and above.)
- If you go to an NPC who will buy your status item and your guild is too high level, you will see the status points in YELLOW instead of the normal teal. Those are the items that will only grant you personal status
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Yah, real stealthy. Next time SOE wants to stealth nerf something they should really consider not putting it in the update notes, those god damn sons of bitches, cant even stealth nerf right. |
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10-05-2007, 12:37 PM
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Do you realize
what you said?
Character: Hcre
Guild: Order of Valor
Server: Crushbone
Posts: 83
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Re: Everquest 2: What the Shit edition
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Originally Posted by Sheya
For example: 1 out of 11 chances to get a master for your class instead of 1 out of 24, same thing for class-only gear (intelligent loot system has been implemented only a few months ago and in just a few zones) or trying to make different yet balance 2 variations of the same class which they cannot do no matter how hard they try.
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Sure reducing the number of classes by half will double your chances of seeing a master spell you can use drop. But it will also double the number of people competing with you for that master, the net effect will be absolutely no change.
With the intelligent loot system in place (even though it is only implemented in a few zones) your chances of getting the gear that drops will be halved if they cut the classes in half.
Balancing the classes is a completely different issue, the problem is they are trying to hard, and that is because players of MMORPGs tend to cry real hard at any perceived unfairness, whether it is actual or not. In EQ1 the necro and the mage were completely different, they both used pets, but that is where the comparison stopped. Why can’t it be like that in eq2? Instead of combining the classes I say SOE needs to diversify them and say piss off to the whiners. But that’s a whole new thread.
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Originally Posted by Sheya
Every fantasy game has 4 archetypes, duh, some just call some class "hybrid of this and that" and call it a day. The mistake of eq2 was labeling the 4 archetypes as a feature, promising that they'd be able to function equally well no matter the situation.
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I agree, and I think that was a huge mistake. I hoped when they got rid of the archetype system that the classes would diversify, but now you and others want to take a step backwards and combine classes in order to meet the “function equally well” mantra.
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Originally Posted by Sheya
Anyway, consolidating to 12 or so could be good because they could expand AA trees, making more varied mix of the same class according to guild needs or playing style choice, this just to list one reason. Pinski said it much better than me.
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What exactly is stopping them from expanding the AA trees now? Pinski didn’t answer that either.
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Originally Posted by Sheya
Even if this is eq2 flames, I don't like to flame other people and I won't tell you that you are a moron, but just uninformed.
WoW started with 40 men raids (MC, BWL, etc.) and 20 men raids (ZG) then dropped to 25 with the release of the expansion, because Blizzard figured that putting together 25 retards was easier than putting together 40, thus more people got to experience the content they made increasing retention rate.
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No problem, I tend to respond with the same tone I perceive I am responding too. So you will find if you don’t call me a moron, I won’t call you one.
I played wow for a while when it was new. I remember distinctly getting together 72 people to raid the behemoth. I kind of remember 96 people raids, but that may not be true because I was still playing eq1 and a couple other games at the time as well.
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Originally Posted by Sheya
More scripted and more varied are not mutually exclusive as in there is not a single script equal to another. Look for a fight that is the same as Vael or 4horsemen or even those "easy" ones in molten core. Each fight is as unique as it can be. As for all raids in all games, once you have the strat down and a sufficient level of gear, you beat it, nothing new here.
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When something is scripted that means it must follow that distinct path and that variation is not excepted or possible. The way pinski stated it did in fact violate their mutual exclusivity. What you are saying is the scripts are more varied from each other, and that is debatable as well.
Again I haven’t played wow in a very long time, and no next to nothing about the expansion. But WoW has far fewer scripted encounters than EQ2. So sure with fewer encounters it is easier to not rehash the scripts, but if you really want to measure it, I believe if you add up all the possible raid encounters from t5 through t7 you will find there is actually far more variety in eq2, it just doesn’t seem like it because some encounters are remarkable similar.
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Originally Posted by Sheya
There is no case where in wow you can raid with more than 40, so there you are wrong, unless you mean those 4 useless contested dragons that no one really wanted to kill. The 2 contested bosses in the vanilla wow are not zergable by any means, in fact 1 more person adding over 40 and it's gg-wipe-time thanks to an anti zerg code.
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Oh, so there is no case … except?
My point is EQ2 is not WoW, and in too many ways SOE is trying to make it WoW. If I wanted to play WoW I would still be playing WoW. I found the lack of variety to be exactly why I left WoW in the first place. If some of you want EQ2 to be WoW then instead of pushing for it to become the same, go play WoW.
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Originally Posted by Sheya
WoW and eq2 quests are pretty much the same thing, with eq2 coming on top thanks to few good questlines in my opinion. Both games use those kill 10 xyz quests to tell some story and to mask the grind. In both games you can chose to grind, it happens that this is a much more viable tactic in eq2 than in wow, where "efficient questing" is the fastest way to level.
Damn, what a fucking wall of text I wrote.
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Questing in EQ2 is far superior to WoW, even the WoW fanboi’s admit that. And especially if you factor in collections and AA’s questing is the most efficient way to level in EQ2 as well. With tradeskills these days you have to be completely clueless to not use questing to level them.
Last edited by hcre; 10-05-2007 at 12:38 PM.
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10-05-2007, 01:01 PM
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Do you realize
what you said?
Character: Hcre
Guild: Order of Valor
Server: Crushbone
Posts: 83
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Re: Everquest 2: What the Shit edition
Quote:
Originally Posted by cornbread
Every good assassin chooses the same AA lines because a limited set of options all designed to do one thing - improve DPS - is going to have some that increase DPS more than others. If there were fewer classes, each class could afford to have more depth to it, and with depth you can have options that don't strive to improve the same goal.
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If there is one thing MMORPGs of the past have taught it is that providing more options does not mean more people will follow it. Everyone wants to be the best their class can be. As soon as a few of the perceived “in the know” people say that the best way to spec the class is x y and z, almost every person of that class will be running around speced with x y and z.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cornbread
Buffing classes are excellent examples of this. We currently have a mage-buffing bard and a melee-buffing bard. Slap them together and make a single bard with the option to improve or pick up melee or mage buffs and they have mutually exclusive options.
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And what does that change? The two different bards have two different options now, combine them and let them chose through AA’s if they want to be a troub or a dirge and what exactly have you achieved? As far as I can tell, the only thing is you have made it easier to betray, assuming they also continue to allow AA respecs to be so easy, which if they combined classes and leaned more heavily on AAs would be a huge mistake in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cornbread
Most of all, I think combining classes would bring down some of the barriers to people who can't raid. If more people could raid difficult content SOE would make more difficult content for us to raid. This is a good thing. Most casual types are in a guild to hang out with folks and can't participate in more difficult raids because they don't have the right classes and aren't willing to be as draconian about recruitment as the system requires them to be in order to succeed.. Having more depth to the classes in a way they can respec lets people adapt to fill their guild's needs. Today if you need something new, even within the same class, you kick an attendee out and replace him with what you need.
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Again, how exactly will this change? If you are a pali or a SK if they combine you into a crusader you are not going to be any more desirable to raids. In fact crusaders will be less desirable because then you would need only one crusader to get the benefits of that class, where as now there are some benefits (though small) to having a pali and a SK in the raid. Combining the classes will only mean there is less need for fighters and utility classes and more room for DPS. If you are a predator, or dps caster then you will have an easier time getting into raids cause they will need fewer bards, fighters, and enchanters.
If you are a casual raiding guild, the trick is to get a few of your members who are team players and don’t mind playing what is needed to level more than one class to the max level. Then fill your ranks with tons of level 70 players, start a website where you lauyout what positions are needed for each raid, and have it be first come first serve for those positions. |
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10-05-2007, 02:27 PM
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Re: Everquest 2: What the Shit edition
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Originally Posted by Illuminator
So simple really.
1. Even the anti-whiners are whiners.
2. What they posted generally wasn't bullshit.
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Which proves that you really are a fucking moron. |
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10-05-2007, 02:29 PM
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Re: Everquest 2: What the Shit edition
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Originally Posted by hcre
Sure reducing the number of classes by half will double your chances of seeing a master spell you can use drop. But it will also double the number of people competing with you for that master, the net effect will be absolutely no change.
.....blah blah blah...
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Why don't you actually play the fucking game instead of post walls of bullshit? |
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