Everquest 2: What the Shit edition - Page 8

Illuminator · 10-16-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcre

But what is the benefit?

You don't have to make a cleric shitcan his/her gear and masters, nor does the guild have to go on a major recruiting drive, to find someone to fill the void. With the upcoming AA-switch furniture, this is even more beneficial.

It can even be taken further, placing unique spells currently opposite one another per subclass to share the same recast timer instead of the AA/either-or approach.

hcre · 10-16-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

You don't have to make a cleric shitcan his/her gear and masters, nor does the guild have to go on a major recruiting drive, to find someone to fill the void. With the upcoming AA-switch furniture, this is even more beneficial.

It can even be taken further, placing unique spells currently opposite one another per subclass to share the same recast timer instead of the AA/either-or approach.

That’s only true if you make it so there is no difference between the evil and good templar. Pinski wants to simply change what makes them different.

Sure, if we remove all the variety we can make one class with hundreds of different AA options you can choose from, and rechoose at will. Then 24 players can fill every slot in every raid, you could even take turns letting each member of a 24 player guild fill each slot in a raid. Does that make the game better? In my opinion hell no, and I personally would stop playing.

Making something easier does not necessarily make it better. There needs to be some difficulty or else the game would be boring. Yah if we cut down to 12, 4, or just 1 class it would be tons easier to find the people to fill the raid, but having everyone the same would not make it more fun. Part of what makes a great MMORPG is having to use the individual strengths of each class to achieve a victory.

Make it so there are only 12 classes and you will make it much easier for pure DPS classes to get into raids, the same for healers, and much harder for the rest. You will need one tank and one off tank, 6 to 8 healers, 2 enchanters, 2 bards, 1 rogue, 1 summoner, and the remaining 8 to 10 can and should be predators and sorcerers.

Illuminator · 10-16-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcre

That’s only true if you make it so there is no difference between the evil and good templar. Pinski wants to simply change what makes them different.

The difference between a good and evil templar is roleplay. There was minimal gain in duplicating an entire class and half a thousand spell and gear items in the database just so there could be "a little bit of this" and "a little bit of that". A cleric is a cleric is a cleric.

Tak · 10-16-2007, 06:15 PM

Templar and INQ are not the same. Similar, but different enough that the lack of either would be missed. DPS groups love an INQ healer. I can do more than some flavor of druid or shaman for them, and at the same time throw my own weight around (albiet a small amount compared, but every little bit helps). A MT group loves a templar, because they can A) heal better than an inq and b) buff better, especially one target at a time. The same arguments I'm sure can be made for other subclass groups, though I will leave them to the people who know them better. (troub and dirge, wiz and 'lock, nec and conj, etc.) It's all well and good to make a post saying 'I would do it this way!', but until you put up the details (and no, you can't just gloss over them and use a bullshit weenie excuse like 'I'm not a dev, so I won't, but they should still do it!') you have no grounds for argument.

Illuminator · 10-16-2007, 06:26 PM

Fighters can have offensive and defensive stances, clerics can too. Doesn't have to be a specific stance button (yes I had to spell that out for those who don't read between the lines), but more of a way of thinking: does this fight require this posture or the other?

I venture off the beaten path with warlocks and summoners, I think it would be nonsensical to merge necros and conjurors, but Right On to merge wizards with conjurors, and warlocks with necros (elemental vs. disease/undeath). Would you like Ice Nova from the elemental DD endline or a Shiva fire mage from the elemental pet endline? Let your AA's decide!

Tak · 10-16-2007, 07:16 PM

But why require MORE pointless grinding or fed-exing to get enough AA to do what the classes currently do now? There's no point! Had the game been designed that way from the ground up, fine. It's not. There are 24 classes. You don't just change something so drastic as the amount/type of classes in a game this large withotu seriously fucking stuff up. See EQ1 Beastlord, or Zerker when it was new. It's one thing to talk about having a game off in your fantasy land that does this. But you can't seriously believe that it would be even remotely possible or desirable to do something as stupid as merging classes in a game as far along as EQ2.

Illuminator · 10-16-2007, 07:23 PM

Easy. Flat-out give everyone the full points for their "differentiation" or "stance" tree. No fed-exing necessary.

ahdam · 10-16-2007, 08:58 PM

Merge Monk and Bruiser
Merge Zerk / Guard (give this new class a Zerk AP line)
Merge Coercer / Illusionist (crowd control is very under utilized in EQ2)
Merge Mystic / Defiler
Delete Warlock, Give some spells to Wiz and make a AE AP line
Make Troub / Dirge songs Raid AE (30m)

Luceus · 10-17-2007, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tak

Actually I'd love to hear someone seriously try to justify merging classes. Start easy, lets go with Inquisitor and Templar.

Keep in mind the worlds of difference in roles, AA builds, desired gear stats/effects, and spell lines. Merge them, in your hypothetical world.

Seriously, you can do shit like that when the game is in alphas and it's mostly paper changes. To just merge one class (from the two sub-classes IE temp/inq) would require it's own patch, to itself, once you include itemization and effects, ballance changes, etc. And to top it all off, the game wouldn't be any better off for it.

I would like to see a lot of classes merged and their AA's changed into a more customized role.

For this example, merge them together, call it 'Cleric' and allow users to sacrifice buffs and heals for dps, or vice versa depending on the role they want to play in groups/raids.

I'd love to see a shitton of AA's, to constantly define your characters as well, which will also give lvl 70's more to do than sit around QH waiting for raid time, or working on mind numbing quests like SoD where they have to run around the world collecting statues.

As it is right now, AA's are simple to earn, and are extremely basic and are almost a joke for some classes. I don't see why they have to make the game so freakin linear.

Take Templar for example. Most templars are going to go down INT/STA with the occasional temp going AGI. Wide variety there. Then down the templar tree, i'd say 99% of templars mix and match down the blessings tree to get that, then most put a few points in the dps tree, or waste a ton of points to get the 10 extra seconds of sanctuary.

Where is the variety? Why don't I have the option to super spec defensively to be a great MT cleric with awesome heals/buffs, or spec with very solid DPS for an OT group. Or maybe a mix and match of the two. Anything, I just want to be creative with my points.

I think the game could be really awesome by merging some of the classes and allowing us to get really customized to our play style with AA's. It's absurd to force someone to betray and lose all their masters and some gear if they need to go from a more offensive role to a more defensive role.

hcre · 10-17-2007, 11:15 AM

So the best argument for merging classes so far is people want to be able to play both classes without having to betray.

Weak!

I will agree there could and should be more AA. However, no matter how many AA choices there are, people are going to gravitate towards the combinations most people consider best. There is always going to be a best, adding more isn’t going to stop that. If you think I am wrong, check out the class forums, every single class has at least one post near the top, usually a sticky, that says exactly what AAs you should go into to be most effective in that class. Raid guilds ask you how you are specced AA wise when you app, if you don’t meet their requirements which is usually the standard way outlined in the class forums here, then they will either demand you change or not invite you.

More AA’s is not going to fix this.