expansion of mentor rules

gungo · 10-31-2007, 01:20 PM

I figured there was very little gameplay discussion in the gameplay forums so i thought i would add an idea that was brought up in a thread about mentoring in the official forums. Basically it started as someone was being griefed by a high level runnign around to named then mentoring an alt and cherry pickign named. But anyway i digress it is actually a pretty good feature for an MMO.

What if all zones in eq2 had a level requirement? So to say what if when you zoned into ruins of varsoons your high level toon automatically selfmentored to the highest possible level (10 lvl+ spread) before any mobs turn grey in the zone. It fundementally lessened the one major issue in all level based MMO design. The trivializing (greying) of low level content.

The benefits:
High levels can gain AA's for all the named they missed. high levels can gain and complete quests and recieve at least green xp and aa xp for them. Completeing level restricted quests along the way. High levels can farm for those masters that no longer upgrade. Have a favorite xp spot? keep using it. have a favorite farm spot? keep farmin it. This essentially allows everyone the option to always self mentor. It even keeps the lore somewhat making sense. Should darathar really ever go grey? What makes a bloodline vmapire so much easier then a mistmoore vampire? it promotes grouping, and keeps All content in eq2 somewhat useful. It even prevents peopel from abusing the mentoring feature.

The drawbacks:
Well some quests that spawn high level mobs in low level zones need to either reduce the npc to the zones appropriate level OR reposition that npc to an appropriate teir zone. traveling you may get agro from green trash but with the reduced agro radius of very green mobs and the inculsion of griphons/mounts/high level runspeeds and the fact eq2 never had an issue with travel even in high level zones w blue+ con mobs i really don't see an issue with traveling. They may need to make certain spells like runspeeds immune to mentor rules. (travel should not be much more difficult because of this)
In the end it makes the game less level based and more tier based. Continually famring higher tier content to adventure into higher tiers. That tier of gear will always be more useful in that tier and be a bit more powerful in lower tiers. It can even make the entire eq2 community abit more closer whether you are level 25 or 50, becuase content will never go grey.

I dunno somehow i see this kind of feature being the difference of a second gen mmo and a third gen MMo. Something that truly differentiates Eq2 from any other MMo on the market. You got level based MMo's and skill based MMo's make eq2 into a tier based progression MMo. And no matter how many tiers(levels) you add the game will still have that close feel.

Ily · 10-31-2007, 01:37 PM

There certainly is ALOT of low level stuff I could go back and complete on my toon and this is actually a really good idea.
I dont have an alt to box and Im not really into going and mentoring a PuG to finish my Ghoulbane or my GEBs so I can get the xp/AA.

I like it. It would even bring the old T5 raids back to life...And THAT I would love to see.

gungo · 10-31-2007, 01:51 PM

At first i thought this wouldnt work. What about avatars? Then i thought well in RoK they are upgrading them anyway so its concievable they could move them to RoK outdoor zones. Lord knows they got alot of outdoor room in rok.

Then i thought why bother? You can still leave valor in commonlands and just make him 5 levels higher then the highest allowed level in zone. He could still drop tier 8 loot. Are people really worried that some lvl 50 toon will kill an avatar. Then i thought what if they used old fabled gear while most are not anywhere as good as t8 fabled (even mentored) there was some items that were cool. Then i thought who cares. He earned that item at one point. In the end this idea keeps all epics truly epic (orange) and makes content usable no matter what level (tier) we are. It will need tweaks of course. But i think the pros are defintely better then the cons. It will make content in eq2 truly expansive and might even make some t8 epic fights truly challenging. At least a bit different as we kill t8 content mentored and scaled and tuned to that tier.

Edit: Heck with this system they could theoretically just reitemize some old epics as well. I dunno it seems sorta like a cool new idea for an MMO.

Tylia · 10-31-2007, 01:54 PM

I like the idea in that it allows the gaining of additional AA in an easier format. Instead of finding a pug at that level or an alt, a group of my guildies could go back to a zone and all drop down to the appropriate level to con the mobs.

The big problem I see with this idea though is how you would handle quests such as the prismatic questline and even worse SoD. I mean Knights of the Round was tedious running around grey zones collecting statues. If you auto-mentored, you would then need to get a group to collect all of those statues. That would be a huge pita.

gungo · 10-31-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tylia

I like the idea in that it allows the gaining of additional AA in an easier format. Instead of finding a pug at that level or an alt, a group of my guildies could go back to a zone and all drop down to the appropriate level to con the mobs.

The big problem I see with this idea though is how you would handle quests such as the prismatic questline and even worse SoD. I mean Knights of the Round was tedious running around grey zones collecting statues. If you auto-mentored, you would then need to get a group to collect all of those statues. That would be a huge pita.

I thought of this too. The problem is not the idea but the quest itself. Seriously tedious does not equal challenging. The whole point of an EPIC quest is not running to grey zones to collect idols. Will it add more time to an EPIC quest that people have finished in 2 days? yeah probably, But seriously does anyone in eq currently have a problem with killing a few green adds 10 levels lower then them? heck most green adds that low are easily avoidable becuase thier agro radius is smaller. Even thinking of SOD it might make more sense that the orc in wailing caves was actually a challenge, instead of a time sink

.

Certain quests and npcs would need to be altered to fit this new rule, but i really think with those changes this is a pretty cool idea.

Edit: If anything this idea will stop soe from creating mindless travel time sink quests like sod and involve some challenge other then running all over norrath to create challenging content. Heck i would rather go back under this new rule to collect a quest update from Acrimond in feerot for a special poisen that was used to poisen mayong or something.

Dants · 10-31-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gungo

Then i thought why bother? You can still leave valor in commonlands and just make him 5 levels higher then the highest allowed level in zone. He could still drop tier 8 loot. Are people really worried that some lvl 50 toon will kill an avatar.

How would you distinguish what level loot drops off mobs? In your system, Valor would be level 25 or maybe level 35, whatever, which theoretically could be killed by level 45-50 players like you said. So I'm guessing he'll still drop level 80 loot?

But then it'll be confusing because some epics like Vision of Vox would be higher level and drop lower level loot.

I think something this major would be better suited in a different game.

If you want to figure out a way for solo'ers to play content that is old to get AA's, they could put an option where you reduce your level to the same as a mobs, maybe something like a "train with" option which would replace having to find a "mentor bitch".

Pinski · 10-31-2007, 02:12 PM

I disagree with this because all it does is allow massive farming of the lower-level zones with overpowered high-level players. Good idea in theory, but imagine the plat farmers being able to massively farm all these zones instead of having to level up, they can just stay in a certain zone and be overpowered due to the way spell scaling via mentoring works.

gungo · 10-31-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dants

How would you distinguish what level loot drops off mobs? In your system, Valor would be level 25 or maybe level 35, whatever, which theoretically could be killed by level 45-50 players like you said. So I'm guessing he'll still drop level 80 loot?

But then it'll be confusing because some epics like Vision of Vox would be higher level and drop lower level loot.

I think something this major would be better suited in a different game.

If you want to figure out a way for solo'ers to play content that is old to get AA's, they could put an option where you reduce your level to the same as a mobs, maybe something like a "train with" option which would replace having to find a "mentor bitch".

Like i said in the begining the avatar thing doesnt really matter. It was an alternative, but since the avatars are getting upgraded and the amount of outdoor room in RoK it is just as concievable to place aowar around a giant fort then infront of the keep.

Vox could still drop tier 5 loot since it really is a teir 5 zone.

Edit: Does it really matter if a lvl 55 mob drops lvl 80 loot when you still require a x4 raid of lvl 50+ toons. Possibly but that can be another debate. They can just as easily move lvl 80 content to lvl 80 zones.

Laodaron · 10-31-2007, 02:18 PM

They'd still have to level above the content in order to make it trivial. This idea in threory would be awesome, but in EQ2, I just don't see it being practical. PLUS, I enjoy being able to train through zones, I don't wanna have to actually pay attention when I'm running through.... lol

gungo · 10-31-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinski

I disagree with this because all it does is allow massive farming of the lower-level zones with overpowered high-level players. Good idea in theory, but imagine the plat farmers being able to massively farm all these zones instead of having to level up, they can just stay in a certain zone and be overpowered due to the way spell scaling via mentoring works.

Under the current mentoring rules whats stops people from doing that now? if anything it becomes easier becuase they can move to their destination and THEN mentor. I have seen tons of level locked plat farmers in DoF. This problem is already an issue with or without this feature.

edit: Also the incentive for plat farmers in leveling is the fact they gain more coin for time in higher level zones.