Alania

You don't even seem to know what you wrote, so for clarification, I'll quote what you said.

Been answered several times, but you rejected said answers and said that isn't what you were asking... funny, i see you asking right there!!!

Nothing like a good old fashioned "I get pussy and you don't" jab at people you're jealous of.

Again, answered quite thorougly, and again, you reject it and continue to say that isn't what you asked.... but it is! See, you said it!

OHHHHH buried in all the bullshit, veiled insults and repeatedly asking of a different question is the ONE TRUE POINT of your post?

Same fucking question AGAIN! you asked it like 8 times in the same post!

See, you asked it again!! "What's the point?" Thats, what, 4 times you asked the same question, and 1 time you claim the "whole point" of your OP, which, btw, was completely embedded in another paragraph, i just pulled out for further clarity.

So, please, Alesis, quit saying that the "whole point" of your thread was something that you only asked once IN CONTEXT of what you really were asking ("what's the point" for those unable to keep up). You didn't like the answers, your veiled insults became straight up insults, then you took offense because people laughed at your inability to click a quote button (no fucking wonder you couldn't hack it in a real raid guild).

Orochan

Raiders most often "belittle" or "insult" non raiders for 2 reasons.

Reason 1 : The raider is an all around asshole, he's cocky, and he's good. Basically like Muhammad Ali ( Ali was arguably the best boxer of his time, yet he talked so much shit lmao , but he backed it up.) So basically the asshole raider sees a casual "nuub" and goes easy target. Sad, but true.

Reason 2 : The casual people who have done pick up labs or lyceum raids all of a sudden think they are tough shit and know everything about end game. They are usually seen in 69 chat spewing off shit like I have full relic, I could out dps you anyday. What happens now is a real raider who has raided all of kos, all of eof, and/or all contesteds steps in and destroys the casual raider. Because the real deal > Imposters.

The other reason has been said like fucking 10 times over now, and that is we just like to do it. It's short, it's simple, and your reading too much into it.

The "why" has already been answered, when you like to do something, you don't need any other reason to do it.

It sounds to me like you got insulted because you took advantage of the raid force imho, and now you hold some grudge.

I bet your one of the many dirges who thinks you can just AF and make video tapes on raids, and that as long as your buffs are up then your doing your part.

/sigh

Btw that's how your quote someone. ^.^

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Kampfer

There is no point. Some people like to be 1st at everything ww 1st etc and some of us play the game for fun. IMO if you are not having fun playing then change or quit. I enjoy 24man raids more than 6man groups because it requires alot more teamwork and coordination and I enjoy figuring out encounters. But I won't tolerate some pimple faced raid leader talking shit like you described. I have been on one raid where the raid leader was like this and I vowed to NEVER join a guild that has that atmosphere. Yea that may mean won't see some of the end game raid zones (much less avatars) till right before the next expansion. I would rather enjoy raiding with people I like and not listening to some loudmouth cuss all nite long.

Again, some people enjoy being trash talked and raid 7 days a week and that is completely their call but it sure isn't for me.

Widem

The reason people raid is b/c they enjoy it. Its really not that hard to understand. I enjoy raiding over heroic grouping b/c with raiding a higher challenge is offered to me over a larger spectrum. I need to have propper understanding of my gear and make the propper choices based on the encounter, know my teamates abilities, know my abilities, be able to coordinate with my teammates, it a fuller experience in my opinion and its really not for everyone. Many people dont like to or even have the mental capacity to break down encounters into "numbers" in their head. You can say their dumb, but some people just suck at math and further more just can't think spacially or do any planing into an encounter.

I think your experience with listening to that guild leader give everyone the classic highschool football halftime talk was for reasons you might be to ignorant to understand judging from many of your responses.

The vast majority of the players that "make it" are pretty intelligent people, they have to be in order to understand whats going on and be better than the next player. You idea of the demographic for "hardcore" raiders is so far perverted, in addition to teh time requirement, its disgusting. If it was not for the weeding out of bad players i know i sure as hell would be able to keep playing. Otherwise maybe it would take 4 hours to do tnt instead of just over 1 hour. Good guilds can could clear everything in EoF in about 12 hours a week. Its just not that hard or long. And as far as contesteds are concerned, guess what everyone doesnt go out every night, even on weekends. We havent raided on friday, saturday, and sunday for about 4 months now. Even at that i maybe would go out either friday or saturday. In a guild of 24 that leaves an average of 12 available on any given weekend night which is enough to kill PHH and only 6 away from killing any other EoF contested, even if when they get home they are drunk.

Of the people who dont have jobs in my guild they are few. One is a recent college grad still looking, one is on workmans comp, we have about 4 students, not counting people working on masters degrees, shit im getting married in two days. You think planning a wedding, working 8-5 mon-fri, isnt typical of a normal person? That guy was simply cutting the fat in order to make things easier on everyone else. Most of these "normal" people with "real lives" prolly spend more time in front of the TV than i do infront of my computer.

I will tell you it was pretty ironic you brought up the whole caged whatever syndrome, when dont you realize your doing the same thing? You are sitting behind your keyboard making assumptions on everyones walk of life and how if you saw them you would just beat them up just like you would beat up your dad, which also reflects some serious emotional problems stemming from what i can only assume to be a very horrible childhood experience comprising of your father, a pickle, 3 bananas, and 1 high pressure hose.

In all honesty if you were to get in a RL argument with most of these people they wouldnt even need to fight you, they could prolly just pay someone to do it for them, you wouldnt get within 5 feet.

Proct

First of all....any guild or raid leader that talks that way needs to be fucking fired. Because its not necessary and when people act like cockfaces it just brings the entire raid to a standstill. People have compared raiding to the military - you have to be organized, you have to know your job, you have to take orders. And some people, gasp, have that fucking hardon for being the tough commander and all that bs that goes with it and wants to lead (read as control) every little thing. micromanaging.

I had a friend in WoW who always said there are two types of leaders in gaming - macromanagers let people do their thing and ignore them until they need something as long as the objectives are being met. micromangers demand to get shit done by forcing people to follow only their directions and need to know every detail.

The best way I have found to handle raids is to keep everyone from talking in raid chat at all. Nothing except a raid leader or MT explaining where they are headed next and doing loot. It is like this in a real businesss model. The less people know what other people are doing, and are focusing on their jobs, the better. Yelling and talking shit - like you said caged courage - is a fucking joke.

Ive raided with some uber -guilds across several games - several world firsts. And lemme say this = the best leadership says as little as possible and interacts with the raid force only when necessary. Bringing drama and bullshit to peoples attention (although drama is unavoidable) is just going to sink a raid or guild.

Whats the point of raiding? This may sound funny - but i raid because its somethign I am insanely good at. I have talents that involve pattern recognition and meeting goals. I personally am not a good leader because I just like to focus on my own parse numbers, and have little interest in organizing something for another persons benefit. But - someone has that talent. They are usually mid-level managment in real life.

There is a difference betwen 24 man raids and 6 person raids. I think the majority of the problems facing guilds on every single eq2 server is low population and the lack of serious talent in this game. In other games, we know the one, there are huge pools of players and most of them came from eq and know their shit. Unfortunately, many are not playing eq2 right now and it is difficult to start a new game from the bottom when everyonelse is at the top.

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Kampfer

Personal experience lol?

Drasklin

I'm not in a "hard core raid guild" but am in a guild that does most end game content. I love raiding with a good guild because you know that when you go into a raid instance you will be with people that know their class and their toons and it is fun to put all the pieces together to defeat the zone.

When you get a pick up heroic instance group, most of the time there are people that dont have a clue what they are doing and it is usually a joke. I have given up on instances and spend my game time either raiding, getting ready to raid or farming coin and am completely happy with that. Heroic instances are fun with guild groups but for the most part they don't offer much as far as gear or coin to make them worth doing.

There is no comparison to clearing Unrest to clearing Emerald halls.

aduros

Wrong. I've been in both kinds of guild. f you never yell or keep your members in line, all your doing is breeding an atmosphere of spoiled complacency. It's human nature to take the path of least resistance, so if they know they can slack and get away with it, they will. And all the "super lenient" leaders do is attract sub par raiders, who are content with where they are, and could careless if they go further.

Leaders that are willing to yell, and call someone out if they keep making the same stupid mistakes, will make their guild much stronger for it. Now all your member know theres a clear line between what is acceptable, and what isn't. Those member will constantly be pushing themselves to be better players, not just for themselves, but because they don't want to hold the guild back. They'll put more into raiding because they'll know that everyone else is also giving their all, not just riding on the back of everyone else. These are the guilds you see as the strongest World Wide.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you have to go around slapping -50dkp on everyones ass. But if your afraid to discipline your raiders, then your guild will never will never be successful in the higher end. And quite frankly, I never want to be apart of a guild where I'm constantly carrying others on my back, through the zone, all because they know they can get away with it.

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Yavin

"For those of us who take the time, invest the effort and are willing to deal with doing things not exactly the way we want to or waking up at 4am for contesteds the reward of all of that is to have the ability to play the game and pay our subscription knowing we are getting the fullest out of it. "

Wow, ummm, have you even seen a girl outside the internet. lol. No offense guy, but it is a game. I enjoy raiding, but if somebody calls me at 4:00 AM to do a contested mob, well to steal a phrase from the OP "I'm gonna bust em in the chops."

To the original poster, of course the game is like a mouse going round in a wheel, how else do you allow the game to continue? All multiplayer games have to have that element, otherwise you get to the end and what? SOE has never said you have to raid, but if you want the fabled gear you do. If someone is content with doing group quests the gear available is more than up to that challenge. If some l33t moron wants to tell you that you are not cool for not raiding, well that's fine. It's really that person trying to compensate for not being that cool IRL. The game was set up to put as much time and effort in it as you want to put into it. No more, no less. But by that same token, if you join a guld that claims to be a raiding guild, the odds are that is why they are on the game. You don't want to raid, join a casual guild, and move on.

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You better have my money.

aduros

Funny thing is, the majority of people who make this statement are the ones with with very little success with women. They find it so hard to believe that someone who raids hardcore is banging chicks, because of the time and effort they put in the game. Yet the closest they've come to a pussy, was page 159 in How the Body Works. So to them it just doesn't add up.

Grats on your first post, now l2click "quote".

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