Orochan

If you can't see that our current spell system is retarded then You must either be 14 ( Exeugi ) or retarded ( Exeugi again ).

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Alania

Weren't you already told to STFU in this thread? Either contribute or GTFO!

I don't know if I'd be happy without Masters. It would give me less reason to go to heroic zones after hitting level cap, I would have nothing to spend my plat on, and I would bore a heck of alot faster in game. Your post appears to be thought through and presented well, I just disagree.

dalien

I'm only level 54, so take my noob ass opinion with a grain of salt.

Spell levels the way they're setup; they are an excellent means of progression. They give every caster something to work for even at level cap. There's a big difference between someone with app/adept spells and masters at any given level.

I'm a casual slob in this game so I doubt I'll ever have a full set of T8 masters etc, but for those who put in the effort to farm/buy them they *should* have a noticible power difference over those who don't.

It's a carrot to chase and a very tasty one.

Traxor

Master spells are put in as X-Game objective that is difficult to obtain/achieve. Players work hard/spend money/ circulate money/ stimulate economy however fake it may be. plenty of reasons why players want to separate themselves from other players who do not play as much. If you play a lot you should have good shit.

No one is ever going to read all of that. btw

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"We hold these truths to be pretty fucking obvious, that all gamers are NOT created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable gaming abilities, that among these are The Ability to Raid, Curse in Forums, and an Advanced Precise Understanding of how this game works."
All of Us

ordate

I just read this and hear "I spent the entire time of 2 whole expansions to get masters and now you take them away from me!!!!"
Masters are good for the econemy. When Im sitting around in raid attained gear and fully mastered there is pretty much no "carrot" left for me in heroic content except making money and those damn elusive shineys*. Masters are a major means for that.

Getting rid of the masters will also not get rid of the farmers. They will still be around as many raid guilds start selling off unwanted loot for large amounts. If not that there are a thousand other things that people would covet that they would not be able to afford. Human nature folks, hard to argue against it.

Are there problems with the system? Sure. But smashing the entire system instead of fine tuning it is the wrong approach.

Economically, if you look at what masters cost a huge amount of money you can see where the problem lies for the most part. This is going to become clearer as percentage based spells aren't being upgraded and fall behind in teirs. Sure all masters start out at the begining of a teir way over priced, but thats a simple economic principle called supply and demand. The demand is huge and the supply is tiny.

As for overall power why shouldn't something that is less common yeild someone more power? I don't see a problem with it and never have. If a raider can do something that a casual player can't so what? Raiders have spent more time to get "uber" for a reason.

*I try and buy as few shineys as I can, its one of my own personal carrots.

Sheya

/golfclap

kyros

no, i think your opinion is just as valid as mine. the only thing i'd challenge you with is the fact that for most of the spells i have at Master I level right now from the last expansion, I will need at least Adept III of the new one to "upgrade" (and even then, it's barely noticeable). that means i'm gonna be running around with last tier's spells for a while instead of using new ones anyway. i even have one or two that it will take a Master for the new spell to be better than the old. there's just something intrinsically wrong with that.

i understand not wanting classes to get too powerful all at once, but not being able to get new spells soon after reaching their level just because it takes a rare or a master drop to upgrade doesn't sit too well with me.

well, that's not the case. i wasn't fully mastered before the expansion, i doubt i'll be fully mastered after this one. as i eluded to in my post, i feel like the hunt for masters takes away from what the game should really be about. i'd rather just get right in to adventuring and not have to worry about months of farming to make myself effective in raids. sorry, i'm a college student. i love to play, but i have a lot of other things to worry about that are much more important than mastering out.

going for masters is a time sink, plain and simple. without it, there'd be nothing to do? i don't buy that. maybe there just needs to be more actual content, or it needs to have more puzzles and challenges. with an all high level expansion, i had expected a lot of dungeons and instances, but i've only heard of a few so far. that's kinda disappointing. i guess we have no choice but to "entertain" ourselves by hunting masters. so much fun. not.

VexusX

Good post OP. I would also like to see spell ranks eliminated. I think it unfairly hinders the new character. It's one thing to be in crap gear, but if you're in crap gear and app1's, finding a group is gonna be quite rough. This kinda shuts out the new player from the fun experience of the game. At least with crap gear you may be able to slide by, but without your spells/ca's, it's just too noticable.

Personally, I like the City of Heros/Villains system. Everyone starts out with the same spell rank, but you get enhancement slots every other level and you add those slots to the spells you want. In those slots you get Enhancements loot to put into those slots. One type of Enhancement might increase damage, another improves your ability to hit/irresistability, lower the power cost, reduce the recast timer, extend range, etc.. But, the slots are finite, and you have to spend the enhancement slots on that spell to improve it, and then you have to put in the correct Enhancement to make it better. It really puts a LOT of thought into specc'ing your character, far more than it takes to select AA's in EQ2. Plus, you can build completely different playstyles this way, making more ways for you to re-work your toon. It's really an awesome system.

Here in EQ2, the higher rank increases everything, more DPS, harder to resist, longer duration, etc.

Peco

I agree with the OP for the most part. I mean gear and spells should be a bonus, not a requirement for some to keep playing. What if Sony *gasp* actually made encounters change their scripts from time to time. If instances and heroic dungeons changed more along the lines of EH, i think they would get more use. I would like to see the idea that Sony had for EH continued upon. Like having randomized instances within heroic dungeons. Player skill should come more into play. Rather than how much money mommy and daddy let him spend on a plat pharming site so he can be l33t.

Raymond

Good solution to this is akin to adorning spells...

I'm thinking back to that failure of an MMO: Horizons. Best crafting system in any MMO, but lacked every where else. In that game you could put "techs" on armor, weapons, and spells. Much like you can put adornments on armor and weapons in EQ2.

Make them add a +stun chance on your blah, blah, blah CA. Or a %proc to engulf in flames (when your wife sleeps with a guildie). I don't know, just not a +BOE... Seen enough of that shit with RoK already.

Make the components from these come from instances (rare chance to drop) or x4 raid only who cares.

It gives something else to aim for and tweak.

As with all things, there will be a "standard build" for all classes... But it would be a further way to keep spells interesting.