A Large-Scale Fundamental Change to EQ2 - Page 20

Illuminator · 12-04-2007, 07:21 PM

What is the new producer's past relationship to the class problems that got us here in the first place? Did he preside over the original fragmentation into 24 separate classes?

Talonis · 12-04-2007, 07:25 PM

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Originally Posted by Illuminator

What is the new producer's past relationship to the class problems that got us here in the first place? Did he preside over the original fragmentation into 24 separate classes?

If that is your litmus test for job qualification, we'll end up welcoming Barak O'bamaguard, new Producer of Everquest 2...

Illuminator · 12-04-2007, 07:35 PM

It's simply the truth I'm trying to piece together.

Talonis · 12-04-2007, 07:37 PM

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Originally Posted by Illuminator

It's simply the truth I'm trying to piece together.

You can't handle the truth.

Emanji · 12-04-2007, 07:38 PM

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Originally Posted by Ravanos

and? I don't care how long it takes, if you're that impatient go play WoW till the new content comes out. I can't wait for epics but i don't care if they are here next week or next month or 6 months from now. I got plenty of shit to do in this game i'm not trying to burn through the content as fast as possible.

you're the one with the problem not the game. sorry i don't have any pity for someone who flys through the content and then whines like a spoiled bitch when theres nothing to do.

lol that's a good idea, if your game (that you're paying monthly for) cannot support all of your gaming needs. PAY ANOTHER $15 TO PLAY ANOTHER MMO.

Luceus · 12-04-2007, 07:59 PM

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Originally Posted by Sylvia

lol that's a good idea, if your game (that you're paying monthly for) cannot support all of your gaming needs. PAY ANOTHER $15 TO PLAY ANOTHER MMO.

I haven't done the research, but if you know a quality game where the dev's actually understand their classes and take pride in their work, please let me know and i'd probably be all over it.

Ravanos · 12-04-2007, 08:38 PM

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Originally Posted by Crabbok

First off who the fuck are you calling a whiney bitch?

Maybe i'm mistaken but you just come off as one of those whiney bitch raiders that were 80 by the 4th day of the expansion and already burning through the raid content. Then have the nerve to come to forums asking for widespread changes because they are bored.

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Where exactly in my post did I whine? And by content I mean more than just zones, I also mean depth of class, itemization, epics, AA's, etc.

and i don't see why that can't be done without consolidating classes. I think we can do all of the above as well as make each class very viable and very unique.

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You say you don't care how long it takes, and then follow it up to say that you can't wait for epics, and then follow THAT up by saying that you don't care if they are not here for 6 months.... so which is it?

im sorry english must not be your first language. see in america, when someone says "they can't wait" thats a phrase of excitement. let me rephrase for our overseas fanbase. "I am very excited about epics, however i don't care if they come out next week, next month or six months from now".

Better?

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You just can't face the fact that class consolidation could improve this game.

oh yes thats it .... because it worked SO well for SWG.

the ONLY way i would be interested in a consolidation of classes is if for every class they merged they made a new Unique class to replace the lost one.

so for example if they merged the Necro and Conjuror they would add the beast master. if they merged the Swashy/Rogue they would add another scout class that would be completely different than the others.

I like lots of classes (well i would prefer a skill based system but since most MMO player have to have thier hand held were stuck with a class system). probably one of the reasons i loved DAOC ... 44 classes

RvR didnt hurt either

Ravanos · 12-04-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvia

lol that's a good idea, if your game (that you're paying monthly for) cannot support all of your gaming needs. PAY ANOTHER $15 TO PLAY ANOTHER MMO.

yes if you are unhappy with your current MMO go play a different one. why is this so hard to understand. its like going to a resturant over and over and over again and then bitching about how much the food sucks.

kyros · 12-04-2007, 08:42 PM

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Originally Posted by Prof

Right, you aren't saying that they currently aren't tanks, just that everyone else should be able to be tanks also, and just because they aren't healers now, well that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to be healers too if they want to be.

The "aa's for all playstyles" mentality you are proposing leads to a single class that can do everything "if spec'd for it."

That is basically what SWG has turned into. Everyone gets self heals and can buff their potency. Everyone gets defensive skills if they want to spec for them. Everyone can up their dps if they want to spec for that too. And you can't spec fully for one without neglecting the other.

The freedom to choose your playstyle comes when you pick your class. If you want to dps, play a scout or mage. If you want to heal, play a healer. If you want to do a little of this and a little of that, you should know from the start that you will suck at both compared to those specifically desigened to fill each of role seperately. To say, I want to top the heal parses with my Paladin, or I want to top te dps parses with my SK is retarded. You roled a multifunctional class, you are good at a number of things but not great at any one. Or for a healer to complain that their dps sucks, tanks as well, I shed no tears for you as you know your roles are to heal and survive a pounding respectively. This "I want to be consolidated because the toon I have time invested in sucks at the thing I want to do with it 3 years later" crap just needs to stop.
There are mechanics and gear problems for a number of classes, and fixing those shortcomings fixes the classes. Class consolidation with expanded aa paths for each class is melding the unique into the mundane and not the answer.

talonis already answered this for you:

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Originally Posted by Talonis

I think you are looking too far to the extreme. In class consolidation that could work, you'd need to work in the general format of what those classes are currently. Sorcerers aren't gonna get heals, no FD for defilers, etc. Work within the pool of abilities the classes currently have, make some skills inherent and some AA spec'able. Get rid of obvious redundancies and make some of the smaller impact abilities available in the lower tiers of AA spec. Some abilities would potentially need to be scrapped altogether to prevent any certain class from the invincible AA spec.

Don't forget combat, encounter design and gear change is woven in with this as well. Discussing consolidation by itself, all other things staying as they are - is leaving out other factors that make this whole idea work (at least in the context I am discussing here in this thread). Consolidation and nothing else is not enough to make this work.

but i feel the same way. the point is not to give every class the same 4 options: tank, healer, dps, support. each class would have different options for what role they play, or options for how they go about their job, but not necessarily all of the roles.

example: rogues
survivability, debuff, and dps lines. survivability gives them some tanking power and works on their stuns and snares, debuffs allows them to cripple opponents with their attacks, and the dps line enhances damage and includes decapitate or something similar.

can the rogue heal? no. can the rogue tank as well as defensive spec warrior? no. does this offer different options for how to customize the rogue to the way you want to play him? i think so.

methulah · 12-04-2007, 10:22 PM

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Originally Posted by kyros

talonis already answered this for you:
example: rogues
survivability, debuff, and dps lines. survivability gives them some tanking power and works on their stuns and snares, debuffs allows them to cripple opponents with their attacks, and the dps line enhances damage and includes decapitate or something similar.

can the rogue heal? no. can the rogue tank as well as defensive spec warrior? no. does this offer different options for how to customize the rogue to the way you want to play him? i think so.

Congratulations, you've described a brigand, swashbuckler and assassin, respectively, only with more limitations themselves. You've turned three classes into one class that will basically be three classes that require even more complex and fragile itemisation, something which Sony haven't shown themselves to be that capable of. So, were do we end up? Worse off that before.