Lysara

Class consolidation would be nice, redo all the base abilities to merge them. Keep the kos aa tree's similar to how they are currently. Give everyone 2 eof trees, each one redone to buff the old sub class it represents very well. Then make it so as soon as you spend 21 or more points in one tree you cant have more than 20 in the other. but they'd all have a 70 cap. so you'd have people with 70/50/20, 70/70/0, 70/60/10 type of builds.

It wouldn't work forevery class, paladins/sk should be seperate for example. But then instead of two subclass trees for crusaders you could do something like a kos tree/tanktree/dpstree.

And maybe make the new brawler class more scout like than tank like.

Duress

Isn't this what EQ2 practically started with, and then later trashed?

You had Fighters, Mages, Priests, Scouts. And then you had your subclass or whatever they were called that you quested for, so warriors, brawlers, crusaders; summoners, enchanters, sorcerers; predators, rogues, bards; cleric, druid, shaman.

Largely depending on the city you chose, you became or picked your actual class at L20.

Obviously, it's FAR less nuanced than a customizable AA spec, but it's the same damn principle, a principle that EQ2 abandoned. WHY they abandoned it, I dunno -- there might be a post I'm too lazy to dig up -- but if memory serves, people did bitch and moan about not being "X" class from the get-go, ie, not having their class-defining skills fed to them.

As much as some people would want this AA specialization implemented, I find it very unlikely that SOE would take a step in that direction. And I pretty much agree with others who stated this would be a game killer.

I'm not convinced that consolidating classes and beefing up AA trees would "solve" itemization, especially this late in the game. I mean, if you just made an AA tree for predators, wouldn't most people (which includes all the people who are not fortunate or smart enough to peruse these boards) just gravitate back to the specializations they know and love and are used to? Assuming, of course, they don't all quit in frustration in having that extra step (I know -- oh boo hoo) to get back to square one.

I mean, if I'm simply lacking imagination here, gimme a good argument for how it solves mechanical issues and not just satisfy a person's desire to make his/her toon "interesting" because s/he gets to inject a little more input in how the toon is constructed? This isn't to say classes SHOULDN'T be "interesting" but there's gotta be a better way of addressing that than making sweeping changes.

As a total aside, a newb question:
Why do we even need the cloth, leather, chain, plate designations? Do they serve an actual function? Is it impossible to just give mit to equipment w/o the tag so people can stop looking at the tag and look at the stats, proc, etc.?

Crusaders, brawlers I don't know much about and can't comment on. But for the enchanter issue I assume you're referring to coercers. IMHO, coercers are great in theory -- it's broken or unimplemented game mechanics that gimp them (for example, pdrains being useless as a tactic against raid mobs).

Honestly, I'm skeptical (no, really?!) that SOE could pull off a class consolidation and put together intelligent AA trees that offered not just specialization in the classes that were axed but intermediary skills/traits that, when blended from each tree, were still a viable alternative build. Why am I skeptical? Because there are STILL AA lines that are considered garbage and there are STILL builds that, without question, are preferred. You'll get an oddball here and there claiming otherwise, but they're usually silenced pretty quickly. If SOE can't "perfect" AAs on such a small scale, why the hell would you task them to putting something so much larger together?

Yes, it's lame of me to say "it's a lot of work -- TOO much work" but...it kinda is? At least, it is for something three years into its life.

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Flaming Homo

What makeup kit is complete without at least two different shades of rouge?

Merge the classes. NOW!

Calbiyum

I don't know why don't you tell us, Falming Homo.

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DARK CRAG - ROLL HERE

Layra

Trying to justify class consolidation by pretending you can make it ok with AA paths is bullshit.
There would be one 'leet' setup that 99% of the population would choose and you would have acheive nothing but loosing some classes and some of the choice and 'replayability'. There needs to be more imagination with the current class definition. Make Paladins/SK viable tanks, even if it means using similar abilities to what gaurds have. Just the fact that you can be different to the guy next to you but still play on the same field is a huge defining factor of this game.

What I have always loved about this game is that it is a pick up and go type game with a LOT of replayability and a lot of depth. 90% of the population play it without any real understanding of 'how shit works'. There has always been a bit of something for everyone and its not full of dumbfuck kids who can only handle 6 different little icons on their bars all with the same name just a new number on the end every time it gets upgraded. 'Yay I got Kick 8 and I didn't even have to work for it, its sat on a pretty little vendor just waiting for me to be a lazy ass and buy it.'

What I think this game would really benefit from is a huge overhaul to its zones and tier system. Instead of the next expansion being some re-make of shit that was done in EQ1 why not progress some lore, make up some shit about the gods getting pissy over a game of poker and blasting the shit out of Norrath. Make Forest Ruins a raid zone, put a great gaping canyon through Thundering Steppes, move factions around. Throw the game on its head and make people want to play it back through and re-learn it. The issue with doing this tho is old players returning, because it would mean they would have no choice but to buy the expac to play in the 'new' game. Where now they can sample the changes without going to the new zones.

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methulah

QF motherfucking E. Seriously, we had a system similar in the beginning, and it got scraped, because people didn't like it. Now, we have a game with plenty of choice. Twenty-four fucking classes, yes, some are similar, but they are more different to each other than twelve classes.

I agree, we have a problem, and that's the itemization, which is currently borked. Do we want to merge a bunch of spells and classes, to give less choice, and so we can have less items and less choice, or do we simply want to get the fucking itemization right.

Ooh yes, let's merge everything and then get access to it through AA trees. It's pretty much what we've got at the moment. Everyone is spec'd the same way, and we all know what leads to maximum efficiency. If you take it a step backwards, then it just means that we'll have the same amount of classes as before, just they'll be even harder to define and design memorable items for.

What we really need is developers who are proud of the game, not just the world in which it takes place. We don't need NGE-esque changes which will just piss off the community and lead to a regression in the game back to the faulty system implemented at launch.

Talonis, fuck you. Seriously man, grow some fucking balls. I'm glad you started this thread, because obviously some people agree with you, and that's fine. What's not fine, however, is every single time someone posts something which doesn't agree with you, you tell them they're "skeered" or need to "think big." Yes, some people will disagree with you, and they have valid reason. If they can point out logical arguments for their reasoning, and you can't rebut them, them you're the one who needs to leave the thread.

Please don't be such a defensive douche with your ideas in the future, it's not conducive to valuable debate.

Scoundril

I'm not exactly sure what your smoking thinking combining a rogue is a good idea but pass it around please. Swashy and Brig are actually quite different. One specializes in defensive debuff and the other in offensive. One is more offensive in nature for fighting and the other more defensive. I play both and I can do a lot more with my brig solo than with my swash yet my swash in a group can easily out dps my brig (if they had the same gear). If you take everything down to 12 classes, there is no room to be your own person. You will be just like 12 everyone else. I like the 24 classes because no matter how similar people think they are, there are very distinct differences to them. This game would be way too boring with only 12 classes to pick from.

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Dakis

Hence a Brigand tree to specialize into and a Swashbuckler tree to specialize into (Defensive and Offensive debuff lines).

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Scoundril

As previously stated though, the only thing that would accomplish is creating a flat hybrid class from people speccing half and half to "get the best of both worlds".

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Osime

Hey Sexah lady... wtf you been doing? Aside from not playing