A Large-Scale Fundamental Change to EQ2 - Page 8

Llewrend · 12-01-2007, 06:05 PM

Classes -
Rogue (2 Main AA paths to delve into abilities of swashbuckler and brigand)
Shaman (as stated above)
Bard ("")
Enchanter ("")
Warrior ("")
Brawler ("")
Predator (2 AA paths, one to make them more like the melee-centric assassin, one to make them ranged-centric)
Cleric (one melee-centric, one heal/support-centric)
Druid (kinda like cleric, one nuke/heal-centric, one melee/heal-centric)
Sorcerer (one direct damage path, one aoe damage path)
Crusader (one SK path, one Pally path)
Summoner (one necro oriented, one conj oriented)

Qeynos grants a class more leeway down one path than the other, except for a few neutral classes, lets say bard, warrior, and druid.

Then, if you don't like the limited abilities of your city, you can betray to a middle-ground city, or Freeport. The beauty of betrayal now becomes you don't lose anything from your base class, but you only lose your AA line up and have to redesignate points.

To balance out the middle-ground city, you could make broker charges higher, make AA restrictions on both sides, or other possible limitations. A way to limit constant betrayals could be putting a lofty charge for getting admittance into a city, so people have to save up for the option and don't betray on a whim to whatever the guild needs.

Then on Freeport, just mirror what happens in Qeynos.

Sadly, yeah it's too late for these kind of changes, but it's good thinking for the future

Scoundril · 12-01-2007, 06:21 PM

If you make class choice by AA then who cares? It makes no difference at all if you are a swash by AA or by trade. You are still a swash. You need the same gear. You do the same things. I don't get the reasoning behind combining them just to decombine them later.

Snark · 12-01-2007, 06:28 PM

I think a lot of people on the development team "regret" the original design directions of this game, because compared to other MMORPG's on the market it puts a ton of restrictions on where you can go creatively. I've seen numerous posts where devs seems to groan when confronting these ramifications.

That said, it's pretty obvious what overhauling changes would make this game 10x better. I think the developers know what these changes are but are stuck between a rock and a hard place when tackling the very idea of overhauling an MMO, especially this late into its life span. SOE has not had success with this approach in the past.

I used to be really vocal about these obvious changes and, frankly, got tired of preaching to the choir. These developers aren't incapable of making a good game, they are just working with a dated piece of shit.

Illuminator · 12-01-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prof

I would have rolled a pet class if I wanted to be a pet class.

Every caster class already has pet spells to some degree. The model I prefer is to have a primary pet as an option, that decreases PC damage output when summoned. Just as enchanters have their primary pets as an option.

Ravanos · 12-01-2007, 09:22 PM

Personally i think anyone who agrees with the OP needs to fuck off and go play WoW and die a horrible death filled with Chuck Norris facts.

I think fucking with a game that has been around for 3 years now is stupid, not only stupid but amazingly George W. Stupid. While the game may not be perfect scrapping it and starting over is the wrong thing to do.

how about instead of scrapping classes we petition the damn devs to make them different, to give them expanded roles and not just the bullshit .. the evil one does a tad bit more damage than the good one but the good one does a bit more with buffs than the evil one.

I don't want less classes I want more classes, i want to customize my class to fit my playstyle. Hell if you're going to pull a bullshit NGE type change i'd rather go the opposite, get rid of ALL specific classes and go to a Pre-NGE type class system that SWG had.

and just to restate fuck off and die if you want less classes.

aduros · 12-01-2007, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravanos

I don't want less classes I want more classes, i want to customize my class to fit my playstyle.

Thats one giant contradiction right there. The more classes introduced the less flexible it becomes. Now, EQ2 has Swashbuckler and Brigand. I app for a guild as a Brigand, and they reply "Sorry not looking for anymore Brigands, just Swash" Well then I'm fucked. Now I have to go through a betrayal quest, spends hundreds of plat on masters, and get rid of my class specific set gear. WoW has "Rogue". Should I app for a guild and they reply "sorry not looking for anymore Combat specc Rogues" I could respec down another line to fit their needs, no quest series, no buying new spells, no finding new gear required. That's flexibility.

The biggest problem has always been the redundant classes. Theres no need for 24 classes at all. 6-10 is enough, and there should have been a flexible system available to truely customize your class. As is, you pick your class and your locked into that role for better or worse, with very little in terms of differentiating yourself from other players. For you to say what EQ2 needs is more classes, solidifies for me just how stunted your thought process is.

All the devs can do is sit back and leave it on cruise control. They're moving on enough 'shaky ground' as is. If they were to remove even 1 class from this game, the backlash would be uncontrollable. And right now they don't have the player base to sustain a hit to their subscriptions like that.

Edwin Ahe · 12-01-2007, 10:37 PM

I really don`t see any problem here that can`t be solved without merging classes.
Example: Inquisitor and Templar

Inquisitor DD-buffer,DD-Debuffer (debuffs enemy DD-skills and stuff), Melee-DD (to some degree), Heal
Templar Heal, Defensive-buffer, debuffs enemy defensive-skills, Tank (to some degree), Heal

Make AA-options for this, so that DD-Inquisitor can deal Damage (with nerfed heals), and Heal-Inqusitor can heal (with nerfed dps).

Main problem here is that this will require a MASSIVE nerf to our all CAs/Spells. And this can end in a massive shit-storm.

PS and btw: in WoW there are 1-2 specs for raiding maximum, other specs are pvp or solo.

salle · 12-02-2007, 01:01 AM

The problem I have from reading this post is no where do you people state why this NGE is needed. exactly which improvements you see this having on gameplay, and no where are you weighing this against the actuall man hour cost implementing it has... taking away classes would mean alot of reitimization.
Don't you think their time is better spent optimizing, ironing out bugs and tweaking the game rather than making a big overhaul?

Illuminator · 12-02-2007, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravanos

and just to restate fuck off and die if you want less classes.

Just to restate, I think your perspective and prior experience are narrower than they need to be to make the the most useful conclusions on this matter.

Malachani · 12-02-2007, 01:06 PM

The problem with 24 classes is that its near impossible to appropriately create gear "tailored" to each of the 24 classes unless its something like Set gear (which they couldn't get right in EOF anyway but that's a different story). Think of it like this:

A decent TREASURED piece of loot drops off of a solo named mob in an overland zone. The piece is "tailored" to a Fury. While other classes might gain benefit from it, the tailoring either restricts them from using it (by making it leather, mages can't wear) or the stats restrict other classes from wearing it (what does a bruiser need with +spell crits?). So out of 24 classes, 20-23 would pass on the item they attained solo, and maybe 1-3 classes would consider wearing it.

It also puts a strain on someone wanting that piece for themselves after they see someone else loot it. They could kill the same named over and over and over, but because the dev's "had" to develop such specialized, tailored pieces for every class, then distribute them either via a shared loot table (more likely) or splitting between multiple named, the person has an increasingly smaller chance of actually acquiring the item they want because the selection of loot is SO specialized at this point.

So the dev's are forced to create "balanced" pieces which no one wants. I've seen some "ok" pieces of loot out there, but none of it is even remotely "tailored" to my illusionist. Its just generic "mage crap" tho some of it is very nice.

BTW, dev's.... adding more +spell dmg will not make an item better. Replacing my +65 spell damage with +125 spell damage does absolutely nothing. So your perceived "really nice" robe is actually crap if all it has is +125 dmg.

I agree, this game was developed poorly. 24 classes is FAR too much to balance effectively without some classes just slipping through the cracks (poor coercers....). Is it easier to balance 6 classes? Sure. But I don't think ANYONE here wants 6 classes. Something like 12-15 classes, I think, would be ideal. It still leaves plenty of room for replayability, but makes it that much easier to balance.

P.S. Fix coercers!!