Should contested Epics even be bothered with? - Page 2

Muraha · 12-04-2007, 11:00 AM

You dont get it do you. There are shit loads of mobs in instances that any guid can take their time over and kill. The only thing that makes contested different is the pressure. You must get it right first time or you may not get another shot. I have witnessed one of the most hardcore raid guilds in the game wipe to one of the easiest contested in the game for no other reason than the fact that they rushed it cos we were there and lapsed concentration. Unfortunatley we did the same and they got it next pull but that's not the point. The point is that the pressure is what makes it different. Stick it in an instance and it is the same old crap we always kill.

Phrozen · 12-04-2007, 11:03 AM

Without contested, it just becomes a boring drag.

There may only be 1, 2 or possibly 3 guilds competing for them per server with usually 1 dominating, but then, IMO, those guilds would just die and simmer away if there wasn't the contested. The top guild is there, and wants to stay there, with the others biting at thier heels trying to "knock them from the top".

Yes, it for a niche minority, but without them, its just boring instances day-in day-out /yawn.

TANGARTH · 12-04-2007, 11:04 AM

THE ONLY PANTS I SMELL ARE MINE. CONTESTED ARE THE BEES KNEES AND THE ONLY THING LEFT FOR RAIDERS IN AN EXPANSION THAT'S PRETTY MUCH 90% BEATEN.

Gaige · 12-04-2007, 11:06 AM

This game tries its best to cater to players with many different playstyles. Contested epics are just another way of doing that.

The majority of raid gear (and therefore the majority of fabled) comes from instances. Instead of looking that gift horse in the mouth and asking them to instance the few remaining contested mobs, why don't you be happy instead that they're not all contested.

Seems like that should work.

If the ubers only cared about the shit you whiners say, we'd be out here petitioning for everything to be contested or for T1 to require avatar gear, etc. But we're not. We realize that we're the minority so that content shouldn't be implemented that way. However, just because we're the minority it doesn't mean we shouldn't be catered too at all, it just means the mobs they do cater towards us should be lesser in quantity than instanced raids.

In short: Quit being a whiny fuck who wants everything catered to their playstyle. If you want to see contested loot, raid contested. If you're not good enough to raid contested join a guild that is.

Talonis · 12-04-2007, 11:06 AM

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Originally Posted by Onra

Because it sets a goal to strive for.

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Originally Posted by kyros

just because some guilds don't go after them doesn't mean that they shouldn't still be in the game.

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Originally Posted by Muraha

Contested mobs drop, in most cases, the best gear in the game. They provide an added excitement to the game for people who, in most cases, have the instances on farm status and need a new challenge.

Having never killed a contested you would not understand the absolute rush there is when racing to be the first to get there. Knowing the strat is not enough. It is the intense pressure and adrenalin rush thats involved knowing that if you dont get your ass in gear fast and pull you may lose the mob to the other guilds who are forming up like lightening around you. Praying to see the other guilds main tank health drop to 0%. Not to mention what it must be like on PVP (dont play pvp but I would imagine it would be fun)

Then there is the massive lag that comes with having so many people in the one place. That in itself makes it a really tough encounter despite that fact that contested are already some of the toughest encounters in the game.

Contested are not for everybody but they are necessary. True HC players live for contested and in some cases it is the only thing that keeps them playing....

...It is "contested". First one to kill it wins

I would suggest you try putting a decent group of 24 raiders together sometime and try to get one of these mobs dead before a HC guild takes it off you. That way you can experience for yourself how much fun it is and you might want to do it again sometime. Maybe not. Its not for everyone but there are a lot who it is for.

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Originally Posted by LFG

IMO, a MMO without contested mobs isn't worth playing.

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Originally Posted by TANGARTH

WITHOUT THEM WE'D ALL QUIT!

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Originally Posted by TANGARTH

DRAMA'S GOOD...

What they said.

Phrozen · 12-04-2007, 11:07 AM

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Originally Posted by Gaige

In short: Quit being a whiny fuck who wants everything catered to their playstyle. If you want to see contested loot, raid contested. If you're not good enough to raid contested join a guild that is.

+1.

Nitestorm · 12-04-2007, 11:07 AM

I like the idea of contested even though my guild doesn't down them. I think it sets the bar and allows you to see who the truly devoted(having the time) inviduals are on your server. I think they would have taken mobs away a long time ago in EQ1 if this type of encounter didn't enhance the gameplay and take it to a new level. I mean right now they could just set a timer on the contested mob when it is downed by guild x. Then the encounter re-pops immediately. This would set a timer on the individuals who killed the mob and not allow them to touch it for 5 days or w/e. If the argument is to not have contested. I think doing something like that would cheapen the gameplay and ruin it for others.

LFG · 12-04-2007, 11:08 AM

The edge of your seat feeling of intensity, risk and competition you get from doing contested in PVE is similar to the feeling you get everyday from playing on Nagafen.

That's true for me anyway, it's an adrenaline junkie's paradise.

Manratten · 12-04-2007, 11:10 AM

Well, I sort of understand what you are saying...sort of. Muraha had the most complete post, so will respond to that.

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Contested mobs drop, in most cases, the best gear in the game. They provide an added excitement to the game for people who, in most cases, have the instances on farm status and need a new challenge.

Now, I will accept that they drop the best gear as an axiom. (I'm not sure it is actually true, but it is likely mostly true) If you took the Contested encounter, and made it instanced, I am not at all certain that it is necessary to remove the gear, whatever it drops, from it.

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Having never killed a contested you would not understand the absolute rush there is when racing to be the first to get there. Knowing the strat is not enough. It is the intense pressure and adrenalin rush thats involved knowing that if you dont get your ass in gear fast and pull you may lose the mob to the other guilds who are forming up like lightening around you. Praying to see the other guilds main tank health drop to 0%. Not to mention what it must be like on PVP (dont play pvp but I would imagine it would be fun)

I kind of get the feeling this is a huge rush if you win, and a huge negative rush if you don't. Also, this implies that this competition actually occurs.

I mean, lets assume the mobs spawns at x oclock, is killed shortly thereafter, and you sign on ay z oclock. That wouldn't be very fun for me, it would almost be, well, anti fun.

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Then there is the massive lag that comes with having so many people in the one place. That in itself makes it a really tough encounter despite that fact that contested are already some of the toughest encounters in the game.

Well, this is the first time I have heard lag being something people would want, but I am sure SoE could put an extreme amount of lag in an instance if that is what people actually needed. Now, I realize you aren't actually asking for this, but it seems crazy to want lag to have any kind of determination on whether an encounter was fun and/pr challenging.

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Contested are not for everybody but they are necessary. True HC players live for contested and in some cases it is the only thing that keeps them playing. They lock them down not only to stop competing guilds taking the gear off them but also because the more pulls the other guilds get the more likely they are to take the mob off them in the future as they get to know it better.

Right, this is exactly the part where I think it is self defeating. If I, as a game designer, want to make content for people, it seems borderline insane to put in any content that can be locked down. Assuming I made 24 people REALLY happy on the contested, it seems I at the same time making (Serverpopulation - 24) completely indifferent/unhappy.

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The ideal situation is to learn the encounter and then just keep killing it first pull every time so no-one else can take the gear.

Right, this is the ideal solution for an extremely few amount of people. Again, seems crazy anyone would want to encourage this, if they want alot of people to play.

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It has a knock-on effect if competing guilds get a kill in because they are now stronger and more likely to do it again.

Again, making it more likely that less people will see it.

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It is not really a selfish thing to lockdown mobs.

Well, I would certainly call it selfish. I am not saying it's wrong, but it seems like the absolute definition of selfish.

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HC raiders like to kill epics. If they dont kill the contested when they pop then somebody else will. The instanced stuff can wait. As for letting someone else "Have a go" that is not the nature of the game. It is "contested". First one to kill it wins

I understand that, what I don't understand, is if I have limited time to make content for a server's worth of population, why I would bother spending any time whatsoever on anything that is clearly being utilized for so few people.

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I would suggest you try putting a decent group of 24 raiders together sometime and try to get one of these mobs dead before a HC guild takes it off you. That way you can experience for yourself how much fun it is and you might want to do it again sometime. Maybe not. Its not for everyone but there are a lot who it is for.

See, the thing is, by definition, there aren't alot. There are dang few.

Here is what I completely do not understand. Apparently, it is this rush, this competition, this, whatever, that makes it fun. There are a few HC guilds that could actively compete against each other, and make this a competition. So, it would take precious little for them to get on similar servers, and duke it out, and make this a fun competition. But that doesn't seem to happen. It seems to be the exact reverse. It seems a guild will completely abandon a server, and go somewhere where this is no competiton.

If that is all that people really want, to dominate the spawn....then why the heck not make it instanced?

Malevolence · 12-04-2007, 11:23 AM

They should have just made everything contested. Instances are fucking gay.