Should contested Epics even be bothered with? - Page 23

Slamdar · 12-06-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caswydian

How would you make Avatar of Mischief a fight 90% of the server will have a chance to experience? Why should such awesome content be restricted to 1 or 2 guilds per server?

Most of the people that I have seen cry over the Avatar of Mischief never even pulled him once... He was up on every server at least 3-5 days where it did not die the first 1-2 spawn cycles. I never once heard or saw a guild pull it that was not one of the guilds that actually did end up killing it during this timeframe. So why are they complaining about it not being catered to them? You never even tried it. These contested encounters are not built for pick up raids (hurricanus aside). They involve 24 people with complete concentration, knowledge of their class, experience with playing with others in the raid, and execution. I'm sorry to say it, but a lot of guilds out there do not execute strategies on mobs worth dick, and that along with several players not knowing how the fuck to play thier class is what hold a lot of guilds back.

Caswydian · 12-06-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stryph

How is contested content restricted? Answer that question.

At the most basic level, contested content in its current form can only be engaged by a single player/group/raid. Thus, when one entity engages the encounter, it is restricted to all others.

For more difficult content, such as the Avatars, there are additional restrictions:

1. Those wishing to have any realistic hope of defeating the encounter must have the correct classes available at the correct time. Those who do not belong to organizations with this ability are restricted from participating in the content.

2. These encounters have a substantial and steep learning curve. Thus, it is unlikely one will get multiple attempts at such an encounter. Therefore, once one or two guilds on each server master the encounter, it becomes virtually impossible for any other guilds to make sufficient attempts to learn the encounter.

Why, if these contested encounters are unrestricted as you claim, does it seem that there is a uniform situation where only one or two guilds per server is capable of killing them with any regularity?

Pinski · 12-06-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caswydian

At the most basic level, contested content in its current form can only be engaged by a single player/group/raid. Thus, when one entity engages the encounter, it is restricted to all others.

For more difficult content, such as the Avatars, there are additional restrictions:

1. Those wishing to have any realistic hope of defeating the encounter must have the correct classes available at the correct time. Those who do not belong to organizations with this ability are restricted from participating in the content.

2. These encounters have a substantial and steep learning curve. Thus, it is unlikely one will get multiple attempts at such an encounter. Therefore, once one or two guilds on each server master the encounter, it becomes virtually impossible for any other guilds to make sufficient attempts to learn the encounter.

Why, if these contested encounters are unrestricted as you claim, does it seem that there is a uniform situation where only one or two guilds per server is capable of killing them with any regularity?

Those wanting to pull Avatar of Mischief were given multiple days. Those wanting to pull Avatars were given 2 months(thereabouts) before the first one in-game died. If you weren't willing to put in the time to kill the mobs when you were online and they were up and nobody was there, it is your problem. Not ours. I'm sorry that you weren't ready for them before, but this is why contesteds get dominated. Because the competition don't put in the time to kill it before the first kill, even when it sits up.

Here's a tip, you want to kill the Tangrin? Go try him now. Have at it, it's all yours. There you are pulling a contested mob. If you can't kill him today, you have tomorrow, the next day, and probably a few days after that. I'm sorry that you aren't willing to put in that time. So very sorry :\

Slamdar · 12-06-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caswydian

At the most basic level, contested content in its current form can only be engaged by a single player/group/raid. Thus, when one entity engages the encounter, it is restricted to all others.

For more difficult content, such as the Avatars, there are additional restrictions:

1. Those wishing to have any realistic hope of defeating the encounter must have the correct classes available at the correct time. Those who do not belong to organizations with this ability are restricted from participating in the content.

2. These encounters have a substantial and steep learning curve. Thus, it is unlikely one will get multiple attempts at such an encounter. Therefore, once one or two guilds on each server master the encounter, it becomes virtually impossible for any other guilds to make sufficient attempts to learn the encounter.

Why, if these contested encounters are unrestricted as you claim, does it seem that there is a uniform situation where only one or two guilds per server is capable of killing them with any regularity?

So pretty much what I am getting from this is:

1) It sucks for casual guilds because they are not as organized as raid guilds and do not recruit people with similar timeframes of play, therefore there should never be contested mobs because they cannot guarantee the correct classes will be on.

Well guess what, I know for a fact that we have pulled contested encounters with really ugly looking raid forces and still succeeded. With the right people in the raid, you can overcome almost any class shortage really...

2) Only 1-2 guilds per server are actually good enough to beat it. /cry

Just incase you were not aware, generally there is only 1-2 decent to good guilds on a server. All the other ones are generally complete shit. There is also usually a few months where contested mobs are not killed... Get out there and learn them before the other raid forces and quit whining that you are not getting a shot at it because they figure it out before you. Plus there still is an opportunity for you to learn contested mobs... Just have to get lucky with the spawn timers in order to get some pull time in on the mobs...

Caswydian · 12-06-2007, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinski

Those wanting to pull Avatar of Mischief were given multiple days. Those wanting to pull Avatars were given 2 months(thereabouts) before the first one in-game died. If you weren't willing to put in the time to kill the mobs when you were online and they were up and nobody was there, it is your problem. Not ours. I'm sorry that you weren't ready for them before, but this is why contesteds get dominated. Because the competition don't put in the time to kill it before the first kill, even when it sits up.

Here's a tip, you want to kill the Tangrin? Go try him now. Have at it, it's all yours. There you are pulling a contested mob. If you can't kill him today, you have tomorrow, the next day, and probably a few days after that. I'm sorry that you aren't willing to put in that time. So very sorry :\

Does the first guild to kill the mob seem to have a much higher chance of dominating the encounter? That is, once one guild does succeed in killing the mob, does that make it substantially harder for other guilds to kill it?

Alesis · 12-06-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slamdar

You are seriously the dumbest mother fuckers I've ever seen post on these forums.

Those given times are generally never raided through the entire time. I know for a fact that CL does not raid to those times at night. We generally raid for ~4 hrs and that is it.

You're arugement of "I fuck my wife therefore I cannot kill contested" really shows how ignorant you are. I for an example work a part time job, while maintaining a 3.0+gpa in an engineering college at one of the 2 major universities in the state. So, drop the RL excuse. It's an easy card for you to play, and you have absolutely no clue about how others in these guilds are; Out of all HC raiders, there is probably only 1% that truely meet your stereotype as players that do nothing but sit in their mothers basement at the age of 30 without ever seeing a real girl's vagina and do nothing but play EQ2, so shut the fuck up. You are making brash accquisations (sp?) on stereotypes that you learned about in EQ1. Well guess what? this is NOT EQ1, and most people are NOT sitting at their keyboards for 8+ hours a day raiding with the sole purpose to shit on your parade and take contested mobs from you.

Basically from what I have been reading you want this: You want a type of contested system that you don't have to even try at all to get a chance at. You expect them to come up with some kind of system that allows you to zone into an instance and fight a non-contested version of a contested mob where you can pull it and learn it at your own leisure. Essentially you want them to give you something similar ot a /spawn XXXX command... Well much like in real life, things are NOT handed to you on a silver platter; I'm surprised you haven't realized that, especially being someone that is so into his RL that he uses it as a crutch to explain to the world why he blows at this game.

Stop with your time paradox theories on raiders raiding 25 hours out of the day. You're making yourself look like a true asshat to everyone that views this site except for those very few on here that actually agree with you.

Nope. I dont want any of that shit. I just pointed out that because Guild A can kill something Guild B cant because of time constraints doesnt make them better. Maybe more dedicated sure, but my point all along has been, just cause you get to pull something we dont, doesnt give you the right to carry an elitest, arrogant attitude.

I dont think all these mobs should have instanced non contesteds versions of them, that wasnt me who said that, it someone else. It was me who said all these contesteds are pointless pissing contests that effectivly lock out 99% of the server, and that if these same mobs where instanced, then EVERYONE could experience that content, while the uber elite still got to have thier competition over who got there first. And it was me who pointed out that if you wanted to really be the super bad asses you tell everyone you are, you should play on Naggy, where not only the mobs are contested, but so is your ass.

I dont feel like they should have instanced versions, I think that any mob of value should be instanced so that all get a chance to try it.

What you consider fun is sitting there under pressure while another guild tries to gank your mob after your pull. Enjoy your pissing contest I guess.

We would all like a chance to try the avatars and other contesteds im sure, even if it was just to lose over and over again, however that is impossible when (at least on my server) a guild roles in like a swat team, eats it alive on the first pull, and moves off to thier next target.

Props to those dudes who got that time and dedication to play that game on that level, but what about those of us who dont? We pay $15 bones a month like the swat team does right? Is that guilds money greener than mine?

/shrug

stryph · 12-06-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slamdar

Just incase you were not aware, generally there is only 1-2 decent to good guilds on a server. All the other ones are generally complete shit.

There is your answer, right there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caswydian

Does the first guild to kill the mob seem to have a much higher chance of dominating the encounter? That is, once one guild does succeed in killing the mob, does that make it substantially harder for other guilds to kill it?

Your asking a question you know the answer to, smartass.

Slamdar · 12-06-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caswydian

Does the first guild to kill the mob seem to have a much higher chance of dominating the encounter? That is, once one guild does succeed in killing the mob, does that make it substantially harder for other guilds to kill it?

Yes, beacuse they know the encounter and have practiced it before. However, every contested kill is NOT a guarnateed first pull. There are sometimes mishaps that give others a chance to kill them. So instead of whining about it, go and actually camp them if you want to experience this content so bad. Generally speaking though, you can almost get the strat just by watching other guilds pull it and kill it; you just need AE timers, debuff timers, etc. So after you watch it a few times its all about you executing.

Talonis · 12-06-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manratten

Well, I'm not whining at all. That some people get better gear than me is fine, I don't have a problem with it. I started this thread with the comment and argument that it seems strange that developers would burn alot of time on something that inherently can only be used by so few people.

Now, some people have posted arguments that have had some bearing, I might not have agreed with them, but they had arguments. However, most posts were like yours, completely whining and crying about something I never said.

So the developers are submitting timecards to you on just how much is spent on designing contested mobs. Cool.

How much is '"alot" by the way?

Pinski · 12-06-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alesis

Nope. I dont want any of that shit. I just pointed out that because Guild A can kill something Guild B cant because of time constraints doesnt make them better. Maybe more dedicated sure, but my point all along has been, just cause you get to pull something we dont, doesnt give you the right to carry an elitest, arrogant attitude.

I dont think all these mobs should have instanced non contesteds versions of them, that wasnt me who said that, it someone else. It was me who said all these contesteds are pointless pissing contests that effectivly lock out 99% of the server, and that if these same mobs where instanced, then EVERYONE could experience that content, while the uber elite still got to have thier competition over who got there first. And it was me who pointed out that if you wanted to really be the super bad asses you tell everyone you are, you should play on Naggy, where not only the mobs are contested, but so is your ass.

I dont feel like they should have instanced versions, I think that any mob of value should be instanced so that all get a chance to try it.

What you consider fun is sitting there under pressure while another guild tries to gank your mob after your pull. Enjoy your pissing contest I guess.

We would all like a chance to try the avatars and other contesteds im sure, even if it was just to lose over and over again, however that is impossible when (at least on my server) a guild roles in like a swat team, eats it alive on the first pull, and moves off to thier next target.

Props to those dudes who got that time and dedication to play that game on that level, but what about those of us who dont? We pay $15 bones a month like the swat team does right? Is that guilds money greener than mine?

/shrug

How is there any time constraints when the mob is up for multiple days the first time. If Guild B can't kill it before Guild A the very first time, then Guild B didn't put in enough effort to kill it, while Guild A did and took the kill. The first kill of the mob on a server is what makes them really contesteds.